Pugilist Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 @Tesseracts - I don't think anyone is mad at you! You asked an innocent question, were totally cool when people pointed out the problem with discussing that stuff online, and the shit show only started after. As an educator, something I try to help my students understand is that not all opinions are equal. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but opinions based on research, experience, evidence, thoughtful reflection, etc. have and should have more weight than others. Informed and uninformed opinions have different values, and a large part of my job is teaching people how to formulate opinions that are substantiated, credible and worthy of sharing with the world. I am as anti-snob as the next girl, but I also think it's nuts to say that the opinions of experienced tattooers and the opinions of people who just started getting tattooed have the same weight. They don't. If it's my opinion that the world is flat, I'm allowed to think that, but that doesn't mean that my view is as legitimate as an astronomer's who has devoted their life to understanding the way our solar system works. There is a difference between opposing snobbery and denying that experts are, well, experts. I'm a historian. I know more about the people, issues and events that I have devoted years to studying than you do. @irezumi is an experienced tattooer. He knows more about tattoos than I do. That's not being the tattoo police, it's just recognizing that expertise exists, and that it carries important weight with it. And that's a more sincere reply than this shit show probably deserved. suburbanxcore, El Dolmago, irezumi and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Can I suggest that we talk a lot less about hand and finger tattoos on here? I feel that if you're in a position where you should be getting hand tattoos you don't need this or any other forum to find out information about them. what's wrong with talking about hand & finger tattoos on a tattoo forum ? deadsp0t and PinkUnicorn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irezumi Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 ^Tess please don't apologize, no need to. You've been a decent recent member to the spot here. I wasn't really talking about you, or this thread specifically. Just my thoughts on how things naturally change, and I hope everyone that read my post sees that I am not saying anything bad or negative about this forum. I believe everything I said about LST itself was still positive. And thank you to the people that said nice things about me. I do try to be helpful it's just weary sometimes. I keep falling into the trap of trying to save people from their own selves just like Tux did for me when I first started getting tattooed and my shitty ideas and designs that I thought were super awesome. It's mostly just because I try to be nice to other people. I do try, really. Edit; Tess I just saw that you aren't exactly 'recent'. My point still stands that imo you are a great contributor. Pugilist, Zillah, Tesseracts and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadland Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 @nomadlandI actually agree that the whole 'forum police' can be a trap people fall into, but at the same time when is it that and when is it more a case of someone like @irezumi speaking up and just giving to the point, professional advice. Is that 'forum police'? Seriously, he gave the best advice in this thread hands down. The internet gives everyone a platform to voice their opinion, but I'm sure you agree they're not all equal in value. Why would we not give more weight when a tattooer weighs in, reluctantly in this case, on tattooing? Wasn't actually referring to him when mentioning the forum police.. As I said he raised valid points.. The whole idea that we can't talk about hand tattoos on a tattoo forum because the OP didn't have enough tattoos or experience to deserve them is utter BS... Dan and deadsp0t 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseracts Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Wasn't actually referring to him when mentioning the forum police..As I said he raised valid points.. The whole idea that we can't talk about hand tattoos on a tattoo forum because the OP didn't have enough tattoos or experience to deserve them is utter BS... I think the needs of people who want socially unacceptable tattoos need to be balanced with the needs of the people who create those tattoos. It's obviously not in their best interest if a 20 year old gets a blurry knuckle tattoo they regret, gets it lasered off, and tells all of their friends tattoos are for unemployable idiots who don't think things through. It would be better for the reputation of tattoos as a whole if people were encouraged to not make decisions that impair their lives. Most of the people who tell me they don't like tattoos, really mean they don't like bad tattoos. The less people get bad tattoos, the easier life is for everybody. I'm not saying all hand tattoos are bad or will ruin the wearer's life, but I see the real risk involved, I don't think it's about being cool enough to deserve it. I don't think the people on LST are Nazis. This isn't your forum or my forum and I think it's pretty reasonable for the regulars to explain why it's not a good subject, rather than just deleting my post without explanation as some people would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Complaining about "forum police" because I made a suggestion that some people agreed with and some people disagreed with? How thin-skinned are you? Pugilist, JAllen, Tesseracts and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott R Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I think ull find that there are plenty of cleanskins more knowledgable about tattoos than 99.9% of those who are heavily tattooed. :confused: Can I have some of your smoke bro ? Zillah, CultExciter, Graeme and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadland Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 :confused: Can I have some of your smoke bro ? let me explain further... having tattoo's as opposed to not having tattoos gives you more insight on the process, the feeling/pain.. it dosent give you more knowledge on the history, the cultural significance, sociology etc etc...there's plenty of cleanskin professors/academics, travellers that would know a hell of alot more on these subjects than travis barker.. dont equate someone that has lots of tattoos with lots of knowlegde, whilst generally speaking they can be mutually inclusive than can also be mutually exclusive.. i can see by your smartarse remark that you fall into the forum police with graeme and co.. jump off your LST high horse - - - Updated - - - I think the needs of people who want socially unacceptable tattoos need to be balanced with the needs of the people who create those tattoos. It's obviously not in their best interest if a 20 year old gets a blurry knuckle tattoo they regret, gets it lasered off, and tells all of their friends tattoos are for unemployable idiots who don't think things through. It would be better for the reputation of tattoos as a whole if people were encouraged to not make decisions that impair their lives. Most of the people who tell me they don't like tattoos, really mean they don't like bad tattoos. The less people get bad tattoos, the easier life is for everybody. I'm not saying all hand tattoos are bad or will ruin the wearer's life, but I see the real risk involved, I don't think it's about being cool enough to deserve it. I don't think the people on LST are Nazis. This isn't your forum or my forum and I think it's pretty reasonable for the regulars to explain why it's not a good subject, rather than just deleting my post without explanation as some people would do. the top paragraph i can agree with. hand tattoos like neck or face tattoos should not be for the fainthearted. My point however lies in the fact that they should be discussed. I havent accused anyone of being a 'nazi'...i think the connection between iidentifying forum police and national socialism is a tenuous to non existent link period. TBH I dont care how much you post or how many tattoos you have, everyones entitled to there opinion on tattoos and or where to place them on their own body...bo ho for the tattoo community if this reflects poorly on them, you dont own the culture you are merely a sum of its part..and guess what anyone who interacts with tattoos at some level is part of that culture too...even the idiot that got the finger tat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatB Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 dont worry your tattoos wont trick us into believing you are knowledgable. Im not saying that to be mean. I just dont have enough self control to not post a half decent one liner. On the topic of finger/hand tattoos... how does one wipe their ass with fresh finger/hand tattoos? Do you have to glove up for each bowel movement? Graeme, Dbeatdano and CultExciter 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadland Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 dont worry your tattoos wont trick us into believing you are knowledgable.Im not saying that to be mean. I just dont have enough self control to not post a half decent one liner. On the topic of finger/hand tattoos... how does one wipe their ass with fresh finger/hand tattoos? Do you have to glove up for each bowel movement? this is exactly my point...unlike others who feel because they have x amount of tattoos, have held a gun for x amount of years or have racked up 100's of posts on LST I dont feel the need to tell others what they can and cannot talk about.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fala Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 What do guns have to do with tattoos and LST posts? I don't understand... Zillah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadland Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 What do guns have to do with tattoos and LST posts? I don't understand... TATTOO guns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fala Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 They aren't guns, they are machines. CultExciter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatB Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 TATTOO guns... Tattooed biceps? Shaun1105, Graeme, Dbeatdano and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbeatdano Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 He means "tattoo gun" aka tattoo machine. I come to this forum because I still have a minimal amount of knowledge on the tattooing process from the artists perspective. It's awesome to have that advice and information available on here. That is what makes this forum great in my opinion. So "police" away! Fala and Zillah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadland Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 They aren't guns, they are machines. heres a FB page for ya mate https://www.facebook.com/ItsATattooMachineNotAGunCachedSimilar thinks there about 32 likes on it...you can be the 33rd wanker to like the page.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fala Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I knew what he meant @Dbeatdano, couldn't help myself. Dbeatdano 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAllen Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 CHAOS!! CultExciter, Pugilist, irezumi and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJDeepFried Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Just got the insides of my pinkies done this past Friday.. One with a heart and the other "xo". I'm in love with them, and the heart is healing great.. The xo is starting to worry me though. You can see the crisp lines which look perfect, but around the letters it looks grey and cloudy and almost as if it's blown out.. I read somewhere that someone had the same thing on their healing palm and that it just went away. Should I be worried? As much as I've enjoyed reading through this shit-storm, this question really belongs here, and doesn't deserve its own thread: http://www.lastsparrowtattoo.com/forum/tattoo-after-care/4140-your-tattoo-infected-aftercare-faq.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameroncrazie80 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Gonna put in my two cents on this. I currently only have one tattoo that I got almost 15 years ago, and I am starting my second one this coming Saturday, so I am by no means even close to full of tattoos (my wife has more than me), and I still consider myself a newbie on here and especially to the tattoo world, but I've done A LOT of reading and research on here and other places over the last couple months. I kind of agree with some saying that a responsible artist shouldn't tattoo someone's hand or palm or somewhere that is nearly impossible to hide unless that person has quite a few tattoos already. If I was a tattooer, I would seriously question a person coming in with no other visible tattoos wanting one on their neck/head/hand. I would try to talk them into getting it somewhere else, and if they declined I wouldn't do it. To the OP. Good luck man. I have a friend who has a tattoo on the inside of one of his fingers, and it's pretty much completely faded away to where you can't even really tell it was a tattoo so you may get lucky, but there's still something there on his finger. And being a member of forums from everything to sports, video games, music and now tattoos. There are people who try to be forum police and act like they're elitists on every forum. For most it's their way of trying to say "I know more than you do, you don't know what you're talking about". It's the nature of the internet.. Best to just let them do their thing and not pay attention to their elitism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irezumi Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 heres a FB page for ya matehttps://www.facebook.com/ItsATattooMachineNotAGunCachedSimilar thinks there about 32 likes on it...you can be the 33rd wanker to like the page.. Can you also find me a page of reputable good builders that call them guns? CultExciter, Zillah, Graeme and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polliwog Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Just wanted to jump in and say thanks to all the tattooers who post here. As someone who was quite clueless when I signed up here and still has a lot to learn, I feel a degree of responsibility for the change in nature of this forum and really appreciate that a lot of the original members are still active here. Zillah, Tesseracts, SeeSea and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugilist Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Y'all, I have not been getting tattooed for that long. I have learned a TREMENDOUS amount over the past few years that I have been getting tattooed consistently, which has been almost entirely thanks to the super kind and open tattooers I have been lucky enough to spend time with. I know very little about tattoos, but what I do know, is thanks to them, and I am so grateful for that. And since I went from one tattoo to three to "there's no point in counting anymore", what I have learned is that there is a lot that I thought I knew when I first started getting into this, and I had so, so much enthusiasm about it! I had a lot of pretty innocent assumptions that I've had to unpack or add nuance to as I've moved forward. As I keep going, I realize I am just scratching the surface. Tattoos are about process, which is part of what I love about them. We are always learning, and like in any good pursuit in life, the more we learn, the more we realize how little we know. So when people say that a tattooer knows more than an experienced collector who knows more than someone new to tattooing, that's not the "forum police" (seriously this is so juvenile) or people being snobs; people BEND OVER BACKWARDS on this forum to give good advice to novices. What it is is having some goddamn humility, and realizing that you know some stuff, but you don't know much more stuff. And you have that humility because you love and respect this thing that you are into, and the people who have thus far guided you into it. I hate that I keep making sincere posts on this godforsaken thread, but seriously; stop feeling persecuted people, and have a shred of humility. We all have a lot to learn. Literally every other tattoo forum on the internet, as far as I can tell, is a free-for-all where people can spread misinformation and feel like kings of the virtual tattoo castle. All people try to do here is respect the tradition and promote responsible and beautiful tattooing. That does require taking a step back every once in a while to ask if a conversation is productive, and it also means that sometime people are going to get told they're wrong. In my experience, people try really hard to be nice when doing stuff like that, and only get snippy when someone has been purposefully obtuse or offensive or arrogant repeatedly, because we all lose patience eventually. irezumi, Shaun1105, Fala and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiling.politely Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I got my hand and my knuckles tattooed way too young. Still in college. I also have been around tattooing my entire life, and remember big intimidating white supremacist bikers being the main clients in the shop my parents went to when I was a little boy. I also know about people pulling away little kids, and getting stared at like you're garbage most days when you go out. Were it not for knowing that history, and truly what I was getting myself into, I wouldn't have gotten them done. I know that because my tattooer at the time told me that outright. I had backup tattoos in case he said no, one of which I got a month after my knuckles, and another three months after my hand. He knew I was willing to be a janitor, unlike most people who are 20 and think a hand tattoo won't stop them from being whatever it is they want to be when they move on from their hardcore phase, break edge, and start listening to Americana exclusively. Fortunately, tattooing chose me without too much time spent as a minimum wage slave at the mall. That said, I turn them down left and right. I don't want to ruin anyone's lives, and I don't know that I have the technical capability, nor have I earned the right, to do too many thing in areas like that yet. Some day, maybe. But for now, I'll say no, and hope that more people in my town will learn to turn away a few dollars in exchange for professional responsibility. And that clients will really hear my advice, not just see something they think is cute on Pinterest or Tumblr, and think hand tattoos will be accepted in the business world. Mark Bee, irezumi, El Dolmago and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 He knew I was willing to be a janitor, unlike most people who are 20 and think a hand tattoo won't stop them from being whatever it is they want to be when they move on from their hardcore phase, break edge, and start listening to Americana exclusively. One of the funniest things I've read on here lately, thank you. Zillah, CultExciter and irezumi 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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