Mike Panic

Thanks for the feedback so far @Joe Shit & @SStu. @idyllsend - thanks for being honest. Mind if I ask what your package cost you / roughly how big of a piece were you having treated? @Mick Weder - I don't really want to derail this discussion, but in the USA laws very state to state, just like tattooing.

With the help of LS many of you are now getting solid information about tattoo removal and fading, from how it works to what you'll experience while having treatments done and the days / weeks after. I don't want to prejudice this question / discussion with too much, but I want to know what you look for when you call for a consult / go for a consult at a facility that does tattoo removal. What's your experience been like, if you've chosen to go someplace different after 1+ treatments where you started, why? Google, YouTube, Yelp and so many other places have a boatload of info allowing you to do research before, but what makes you pick up the phone and call one spot over another. What factors into your decision and what has your experience been like?

Sorry for the odd crop, this is the company cover photo and I also wanted to make sure the logo wasn't on the image so it wouldn't come off as advertising. This client didn't like the shoulder cap he had, but wanted a very specific cover up that included soft shading and more on the side of realistic. The artist sent him my way and we ended up doing 4 laser tattoo removal treatments on him to fade it down - the reason I only have the photo up until 3 is because after the 4th he had it heal and went back to the artist to get it covered. Both the artist and myself are extremely happy with the results, and don't believe there will be any bleed through after the tattoo fully heals, from the original piece. The artist who covered it is: Matt Kramer | Lehigh Valley | Allentown Tattoo | Mind's Eye Tattoo / and can also be found at Instagram

I have never used the Quanta @irezumi, but I have a colleague in Australia who has one and produces great results. The technology is essentially the same laser I use, but also has the ability to do Ruby (different wavelength) for certain, specific and stubborn colors. The cold air was probably a Zimmer Cryo 6, we use the 5 because we got a really sweet deal on it and from what my maintenance guy tells me, they are easier for him to maintain (he's an authorized Zimmer repair specialist so I trust him). Utilizing cold air makes a HUGE difference IMHO for both the comfort level of the client sitting but also in the short term swelling. Best of luck with your fading, ask any other questions if you have them.

Really, it looks legit? When you see FDA approval on the proprietary solution used and the process itself and are shown complete removals without scarring on all parts of the body, I'll become a believer. I've NEVER seen anyone try this stuff on a knuckle, throat or other area of the body where there isn't a lot of muscle or fat tissue. Not my website, found via Google search, MD Cosmedical Solutions Tattoo Removal Sydney | Laser Tattoo & Tatt2away Removal Specialists Sydney - that is NOT acceptable to me. Tatt2Away official site, Tatt2Away® - How Tatt2Away Works - again, nothing looks right about that. Again not my website and found via Google, Bad Tattoo Removal Treatments

They have a solid reputation, are about an hour south of Baltimore (Arlington) but I do not personally know anyone there and have not been treated there Laser Tattoo Removal Specialist Arlington VA - Washington DC

Textural changes are always a possibility with laser tattoo removal, however you may want to seek the advice of a dermatologist. The textural changes could be due to scarring or keloids forming in the dermis and a fractional laser may be needed to further break those down.

Just a word about EMLA - if anyone on here is using a numbing agent prior to being treated that was not provided by or bought from your laser tech, please inform them. My malpractice insurance has a clause in it specifically regarding EMLA and I will not treat anyone who uses it. Likewise, I strongly advice against using topical numbing agents.

I have zero experience with UV pigments, when not under UV light, are they visible to the naked eye? If they are not, the only safe and effective way to remove them will be via skin graft. Q-Switch Nd:YAG laser (the gold standard) and Picosure (the new kid on the block) rely on pigment differentiation to work, that is to say, fair skin with contrasting pigment. Likewise, white is very hard to treat as well.

This should be a great first-year con, tons of great artists!!

I don't and generally speaking, strongly advice against using them. Topical creams create a barrier between the light (a laser is a condensed beam of light) that causes refraction, regardless of how well you think the skin has absorbed it. The result can be reducing the energy of the light and making the treatment less effective compared to using it without. Additionally, it can redirect light to area's of the skin that are not tattooed, increasing the chances for short-term swelling. Use that as a reference for light refraction. - - - Updated - - - This is good as general information, but to the best of my knowledge there have been few if any reported instances of problems with laser tattoo removal. Regardless, the forms I have clients sign indicate there is a possibility of mercury, chromium or cobalt in pigment, and I know from speaking with people who have made pigments in the 90's that many reds contained rust. In the USA, tattoo ink is not controlled by any governing body, some artists still make their own. Tattoo removal lasers are FDA regulated, when bought from an authorized sales agent. This does not include the desktop machines or "brief case" style portable machines imported from China. While I may sound slightly defensive on this subject, I field more phone calls about the brand and type of laser I use, and will often ask the person in my reply if they know the brand of machine, power supply and pigments used when they got tattooed. Just some food for thought.

@hadang186 - I'd stick to a Q-Switch Nd:YAG for black and grey.

If you have blisters please contact your laser tech or doctor for proper aftercare. I don't give aftercare instructions online or to people who are not my clients.

I'm going to assume you mean toning laser, which I don't have experience with. As for the rest of the questions. Treat your body the way you should every day, regardless of having tattoos removed, it will improve the qualify of life all around. Most people can exercise with little to no limits the day after a treatment.

Thanks, really appreciate it. Ironically someone just tore me a new one on our Instagram account about how we could possibly justify the pricing for a 10 seconds worth of work, they sadly failed to read the person had more then one tattoo and we do scale for very small pieces. Thanks for the support!

It has to do with a misunderstanding of how tattooing works, and not setting a proper expectation with you when starting the work. First, lets address the bigger issue, there is no such thing as a cover-up. Yes, I said it. Sure, it's covering the old work but essentially any cover is a hide, hiding one tattoo under another. Next, why did it bleed through? Because there was too much pigment. Tattooing is a practice of laying pigment in the dermis. If you have a dark colored wall in your home and you want to put beige or white over it, you know you need to put primer on it first before applying two layers of that new color. As the skin heals from the tattooing, the pigment will settle in from the skin trauma and it's possible, especially as you tan and age.

Some of this I agree with, some I really don't. Specifically, 90% of the tattoo removal process success is a direct result of your immune system. The other 10% is a mix of pigments used and technique of artist. I've covered this several times before. The tech / doctors job is to safely and efficiently fade your tattoo. This is just false. Yes, a small percentage of people out there will milk clients for an extra treatment or two by playing it too safe and not being aggressive enough. Here's the preface to what I'm about to share. I was tagged in an Instagram photo and asked for an opinion, you can read my comments with the original poster and another certified laser tech. The client is not mine (they live in a different country) and I offered no aftercare help. Instagram My gut feeling is that the tech was too aggressive with their first treatment. In the comments the person says she made a video of the process and posted it to YouTube, I've seen it and don't believe the technique is wrong, although perhaps a "little" too slow, but here's the thing. That type of blistering is not normal. It's coming from either two much energy or impurities / foreign objects in the pigment, I'm guessing on the first. Secondly, you can see after 1 treatment the level of hypo-pigmentation in the surrounding skin, that is to say the lightening of her skin tone. That is not acceptable to me, and it shouldn't be to anyone. Yes, hypo-pigmentation is possible with any laser treatment, but to see that much after just 1 treatment is NOT good, and I'm seeing this fairly often with clients treated by a Picosure. Healing time is healing time, it's all about the same, but the level of fading can be 5-30% greater with a Pico due to the shorter light bursts / more efficient at breaking down pigment. Swelling is dependent upon lots of factors, including location, total size, body mass of client and technique of the operator. elbows to fingers and ankles to toes always swell more and take longer to heal due to location. The further away from the heart, the harder it is to pump blood there. This is true with any wound. Ironically, the Cynosure sales rep seems to think otherwise, and they are pushing sales hard and saying that people will pay a premium to get something gone faster. Price still matters, so does proper ability to heal and heal well without issues. @Wraith - thanks for taking the time to do that!!

Wow. Longest I've treated anyone is 19 minutes. That's brutal. Drink water. Lots. Till it hurts. It will help you. Also eat well today and tomorrow.

@SStu hit the nail on the head @CampB - it's crucial to have those before photos. Blistering isn't typical - that's not to say it doesn't ever happen but make sure you let your tech / Dr. know about it.

For you guys that are paying for 20-30 minutes of "laser time" - is that actual time of the machine firing? The longest I've ever actually run the laser at a virtually non-stop basis is 19 minutes, and it was a huge section of a back piece. I'm curious because the machine should be firing at 10Hz, that is the 'speed' of the machine. When each time it hits your skin should be like XXXXXXX, if it's more like X__X__X__X__X that means they are probably running at a slower speed, which ultimately gives more control over where the laser is firing on your skin, but can double or triple the time it takes to achieve any kind of coverage. For something the size of an iPhone for example, if it's solid,that shouldn't take more than 2 minutes, tops. So I'm curious how long you guys are sitting for treatments / how big the areas are and what speed the machine is running. 30 minutes sounds like a very long, painful time for something that should be done much, much faster.

Either a Pico or R20 should be explored in that situation, but it will probably still take a minimum of 6-8 months to remove it. I worked with a young gentleman this year who had a tattoo on his neck, and we did shorter time between treatments because he was healing really fast. That being said, hands / feet always take a little longer to heal, being further away from the heart and all. I wish your friend good luck, and thank them for wanting to serve for me.

@john - it's been covered a few times here, most people don't offer or do the R20 method unless there's a serious time crunch, like enlisting in the military. It causes more trauma to the skin, you'll be in the office for up to 2 hours and the cost is typically 3-5x per treatment. The results vary wildly. The whole R20 method was based off one test study of 12 patients, with mixed results. Somehow, it's become common knowledge and people offer it and ask for it. There's a few places that show really great results, but it's not the normal.

That's what myself and many others are very afraid of. I've already spoke to many professionals in the UK who face this problem on a regular, cheap, unregulated lasers and improper technique are scarring people. There's such a violent price-war going on right now in the UK over laser removal that quality is taking a back seat. Old saying, Pick two of the following 3: * Cheap * Fast * Good but you can never have all 3

@CercleRouge - I'm not sure I qualify to answer this, as I'm not a scientist or developer of new technologies, but I'll give you my 2 cents based on what I know. There honestly hasn't been a whole lot done in the last 10 years. The gold standard, Q-Switched Nd:YAG lasers that most of us use, have been FDA approved and been in use for 15+ years now. The first thing to really stir up the industry has been the Pico laser, however it's proving to be inefficient on red pigments, and priced out of most providers budgets / most consumers won't pay the bloated price for treatment. The R20 protocol is still, in my eyes, very early in it's infancy with proven results. Where are things going? Honestly, I don't know from a technology standpoint. I think the next 5 years will see brutal price wars as more people invest in service based industries, tattoo removal being one of them. I did a phone consult with someone interested in starting a business in Canada earlier this year. He has no tattoos, no interest in tattoos, is not a health care worker but did the research and math and sees this as a growing demographic and industry and is trying to get paid doing it. I anticipate hearing more stories like this. I come from a tattoo community, and work within that community (hate that word but whatever). The other sect of people are the med-spas and plastic surgeon / dermatologist who will continue to add this service onto their existing menu of items. My only fear is, like tattooing and piercing, there will be people offering super cheap service and people seeking a super cheap service, but getting hurt, harmed or damaged skin because of it. Or worse, not seeing results and get a bad taste in their mouth about tattoo removal. There are new businesses opening all the time with what I call Mickey Mouse Machines, cheap $2500 boxes from China. That's not how to get into this business.

Blisters are more uncommon than common, I'd strongly suggest using ice post treatment to help reduce swelling and extract more heat, faster. 15-20 minutes on, 45 minutes off, repeat as needed. For fading to facilitate a cover-up, I tell clients 2-5, but again, that depends on location, desired cover, skill and talent of artist and their ability to do what you want, without going overly large or overly dark.