Dave Sobel

Always nice to have someone who has dedicated their life to this thing we love. Glad you joined Dave. Godspeed.

Thanks Brock.

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Thanks hogg!

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Thanks Sstu!

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And thanks deadspot!

Hi Dave! Overlooked this post; good to see you here.

Thanks!

My understanding of the shutdown in NYC from reading what has been said by a few tattooers that were tattooing back then is that it was due to to there being an outbreak of hep in the navy (nationwide according to Jerry) that the navy passed the buck on to tattooing across the nation. NYC tried to get the tattooers there to get together to come up with a set of reasonable health regulations, but since there was so much in-fighting and territorialism between tattooers there, that they wouldn't come together so the city just shut it all down. I believe it was both Crazy Eddie and Stan M that were quoted as saying that.

Tattooing was regulated or shut down in many places across the country at the same time, which tends to support Jerry's story.

Anyway, this guy in the article is a turd regardless, and is doing a dis-service to not only our trade, but to his "friends" as well.

I am very much tempted to send him an email to fish for info on one of these parties and just send it to the health department...

But alas, this pisses me off quite a lot because there are artists whose work I really admire who have worked at East River Tattoo, and that is just such a fucking bummer. I guess at the same time, you can't attribute one person's dumbassery to their coworkers.

Mostly, this just makes me really sad.

Chances are this guy is lying about his apprenticeship. People do that all the time to try to gain credibility. And it's a real shame that most people reading the article won't be able to read the subtext of what this guy really is saying which is that he sucks too horribly and is too lazy to get a spot at a real shop, and because of that he could never actually charge anyone for his work. He's probably just using this to be "cool" with his jerkoff hipster friends. Yet another crappy side effect of tattoo TV shows.

Wheres the science for this ? Aquaphor is almost the same stuff as bepanthen (panthenol vit b cream) how can it give you staph ? From what I am led to believe, you get staph from not washing an open wound properly. I suppose if you are rubbing the cream in with dirty hands you can get it . But the cream doesnt cause it !! Im sure the Lawyers at eucerin would have something to say about those claims lol ...

Although Aquaphor has Panthenol in it, it is not a cream, and it is approximately 99% petroleum in the form of petroleum jelly, and mineral oil. Creams are around 50% water give or take depending on the particular one, and so the petroleum in them absorbs more quickly into the skin instead of sitting on top creating a non-breathable barrier as well as a lovely place for dirt and bacteria to hang out and enter your new tattoo through the wet scab that normally would protect you if it were dry.

As far as the science of staph is concerned, everyone carries their own strain of staph bacteria at all times. Some staph infections are caused by coming into contact with someone else's staph and being unable to fight it off, but plenty are actually just flare-ups of our own bodies staph. Any time there is a wound to a person's body, the chances of the bodies staph bacteria blooming into a full blown infection are increased. Staph flourishes in a warm, moist, airless environment which is exactly what you create when you put a layer of petroleum on top of your new tattoo. If you've ever had a bunch of red bumps, or even small whiteheads form on or around a new tattoo, that was your bodies staph flaring up.

I've had a few clients over the years have no infection problems with their tattoos when using lotion as a moisturizer, but then develop staph outbreaks within a day after trying Aquaphor.

As far as what I know of staph and how it works, the knowledge came from reading a paper written by researchers at Johns Hopkins university about staph, and the most effective cleaning agent to use in the hospital to reduce infections from cross-contamination.

One last thing. You wouldn't use Vaseline on a new tattoo would you? People quit using that stuff on their tattoos decades ago because of the regular infections that came along with the use of it. Aside from being slightly less sticky, and having a very small percentage of other added chemicals added, Aquaphor is nearly identical. A little bit of all vegetable oil based lotion is much better for not only your tattoo, but for your personal health overall.

HAHA, you'd have to pay me to do the whole thing, but the discussion around 16:00 about successors is pretty interesting. He says that until three years ago, he had a successor (Horitoshi II) lined up, but that the successor did not abide the rules of the family and was expelled. Then, he had a Horitoshi III lined up, but that this potential successor had no intention of leading the family. So, he has decided that they will elect a Horitoshi III democratically between him and his three oldest "sons." The ideal successor, he says, has to be good at tattooing, but also a man of character. He has to be mild-mannered because he (Horitoshi I/the family) has various domestic and international relations to maintain, and dedicated to the family.

In another really interesting bit of the interview, at around 24:00, he says his "family" differs from other families in that his relationship with his "family" members is really one between father and son rather than master and apprentice. The apprentices start as such, but after spending some time apprenticing and being deemed worthy based on character, they become his sons. That is why they call him "Oyaji" (Pops) rather than "sensei." Despite this, in the most unfortunate case, he says, an apprentice/son left the family after six years.

Finally, towards the end, Horitoshi expresses his devotion to the preservation of tebori as a Japanese tradition. He says that ultimately, he is teaching his apprentices to maintain tradition. The Horitoshi Family, in Japan, he says, is the family most dedicated to tattooing as a Japanese tradition. Machines could be used for lining, but shading has to be done by hand to preserve tattooing as a Japanese art. He doesn't think tattooing will be accepted in Japan anytime soon, but maybe in fifty years, Japanese people will have a more "casual" attitude toward it.

When was this documentary made? I knew a tattooer in LA that was part of the Horitoshi Family in the mid 90's. And this story sounds familiar.

I agree if you are unsure about it follow your tattoo artist !! I always state I'm not a professional and these cases are from "my experiences" ! From my experience it's an amazing product!

Aquaphor is used in all the shops i've been tattooed at. As long as you don't over use it it's perfectly fine. Of course it's up to you to follow whatever advice from whatever shop!

From my experience I highly disagree with putting it on for 24 hours then reapplying it. If you ask people that use the product they will tell you it will hurt like s*** ! Plus other things I don't feel like talking about again..

Anyways @petes67bird follow what is good for you bro. I was only giving you advice because you asked me. Otherwise..

This product was used on me by a great tattooer/guy. I've only heard good things about it from others ..

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Not to get into a pissing contest, but I have been working with someone that has been using Tegaderm sold under the brand Name Tatu Derm for 2 years exclusively. The company recommends 12-24 hours for first application on the fresh tattoo. The only clients that have had trouble with removing the initial piece did so because they didn't peel it correctly. He now has most clients stop in the next day for removal and replacement of the initial piece to avoid user error in removal and replacement.

As far as the Aquaphor goes, although in most cases people won't have any serious problems with it, in some cases it can actually cause a person to develop a staph outbreak. And very quickly after they begin using it.

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I did discuss it and he said I healed well and shouldn't proceed with tegaderm. So I am just using the light layers of unscented lotion. Looks good so far, beginning the peel today

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That's great! I am a big fan of the old maxim "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" As long as your work is regularly healing fine then that's what matters.

Oh ok. I never used aquaphor as Nick said not too as it has petroleum in it. He said only unscented lotion. You think that will be OK? I never really ooze, I normally get home, wait three hours, shower and then apply thin coat of lotion.

I was thinking I would get home, after 3 hours wash the tattoos in shower. Then I would air dry, lightly lotion. Once it air dry to where the lotion won't cause the tegaderm not to stick, maybe couple hours, I will put it on. Leave it on 3 days, and remove in shower. Sound good?

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You really should stick with what your artist has been having you do if it hasn't been causing issues. Aquaphor is exactly the same as Vaseline. 100% petroleum jelly (white peteolatum). They do something to make it a little less thick, but otherwise it's identical.

The way the Tegaderm stuff is supposed to be used is to put it on immediately after the tattoo has been done, left on for 24hours, wash the attoo thoroughly to remove ALL the plasma, then reapply for 48 hours. It is sold specifically for tattoos in roll form as "Tatooderm" The owner of the shop where I work uses it all the time.

Also, discuss it with your artist before using it to make sure he's okay with you using it. Otherwise he may not garantee the work.

Neither one is ideal really. Although plastic wrap has certain advantages. Unlike gauze, plastic won't stick to the bandage and either leave behind particles of cotton( which can cause infection) or pull out a chunk of your brand new tattoo leaving it spotty and opening it up to infection. The best things for bandages are either plastic coated pads that absorb blood and plasma, or the thin breathable films used for burn patients. The pads only get left on for a couple hours to allow the skin to seal itself, whereas the films get left on overnight, and then get reapplied.

I got to thinking the other day, all the tattoo's i've had done in the states the artists has wrapped with plastic wrap, but the tattoo i got up in Canada the artist put some gauze on after she finished with the tattoo. It made me wonder what is better to put on a tattoo would it be gauze because it allows the tattoo to breath and can absorb the blood or is plastic wrap because it suffocates in a sense the tattoo. I preferred the gauze because compared to plastic wrap i didn't notice the gauze, but the plastic wrap irritated my skin so much i've always taken them off right after getting the tattoo because i hated the sweaty, suffocating feeling.

So, I wanted to know your opinions about putting gauze over a tattoo after it's done vs putting plastic wrap over a tattoo? What would you prefer having over a tattoo?

psst: i wasn't sure if this went here or the tattoo after care section so i just put it here (to be on the safe side)

Cork, the term Family is used in a way that we here in the west don't really use it. It is not blood, but also not quite honrary either. In the japanese tattoo family, it is a very strong bond of duty and honor similar to a blood family that encompasses the sinsei and his apprentices. As far as the title being passed on, I can't give you specifics other than the title is passed while the master is alive. Titles are given to the tattooers once the master deems them appropriate. I was friends with a tattooer that was part ofthe Horitoshi family in the mid 90's, and at the time he was Horitoshi III. He apparently left the family and the title was bestowed on another in the family from what I heard.

Hi there, my name is Dave Sobel and I'm a tattooer. I've been tattooing since 1990,

Starting in Los Angeles, and now in Maryland for the last 21yrs.

I'm really crappy at talking about myself.

I love the fact that this forum has rules aimed at protecting and respecting this thing that I love and have devoted the last 23yrs of my life to.