nomadland

Slightly off-topic, but is "bikie" actually strine slang for "biker"? Because that is adorable.

Also, I'm with @Mick Weder when it comes to hands and neck tattoos. Not to sound like an old guy (too late!), but there used to be rules to this shit.

I know plenty of bikers and have yet to come across any who would see the term 'bikie' as derogatory.

The Australia 'bikie' of today is far removed from the one mick welder talks about, in fact some 'bikers' in OZ, don't even have bikes!

Per capita OZ has more bikers than anywhere in the world, and as opposed to others I think there a huge blight on our tattoo industry..

There is already action afoot after the Mike Tyson tattoo thing, and professional sports players are being asked to address this before they get a tattoo. Tattooers want to claim that the work is being displayed during games without their recognition, with some thought that the player is somehow making money from it.

But in the case below, I have to agree with the artist with regard to the character waking up with a replica of Tyson's tattoo:

Tattoo artists are asserting their copyright claims

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There is no reason you can't ask the contract to be revised to have assigned to yourself some degree of limited use license while the tattooer retains ownership of the copyright. This could specifically address the Tyson-like issues and specifically allow a person wearing the tattoo to go about their daily life without threat of future lawsuit if they happen to choose to do something that reveals the tattoo to an extended audience, god forbid, in the course of their making money doing something that has nothing to do with the tattoo. This is a scary specter.

Here's a wonderful gray area - I model in a swimsuit and the photos clearly show my back tattoo. Can my tattooer claim a cut? If it's in a tattoo magazine and I get paid, perhaps he's got a claim. I dunno. At a minimum he should get written credit. If it's in Sports Illustrated, I would think not. Although if I could actually get into Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition, I'd gladly give him credit and a cut!!!

To be fair to Jun as id like to think I no him well, I don't think he would ever use it in the ways you are suggesting are possible, it was as I said more of legal disclaimer regarding health issues etc rather than about copyright, ownership etc. Although this of course was included.

I totally agree with your points and scary thoughts though, but perhaps its just a sign of the times.

I'm new to the tattoo scene, but this strikes me as utter horse shit. I would turn around from a tattooer who asked me to do this. I consider this a collaboration - my reference work and his design. I am currently honoring my tattooer's request that I don't tag him in any in-progress photos I post and I have no problem with this. But this notion that you don't actually "own" your tattoos is ridiculous. This isn't exactly a pen-and-ink drawing laid down on some high quality paper you randomly purchased off the internet.

If he is talking about copyright, that's a funny issue. He doesn't have to ask you to sign anything in order to claim the work is copyrighted. My artist can do that right now. Technically in some cases he could claim to hold the copyright for the original work, but he can't sue you unless he's registered it with the Copyright Office (U.S.). It's also very doubtful that your presenting the work would be considered infringing on his copyright because you aren't doing it for profit, and displaying the work doesn't degrade the value of the work itself. (Except if you're displaying it in excessive sunlight without sun protection...now that's an interesting thought...).

This isn't like signing away a copyright to get an article published in a journal for example, because such a journal will often restrict access to the article in order to make money from it (i.e., subscription only or per-article purchase). Without owning copyright, they can't turn a profit. As much as I hate that, we end up having to do that.

Depending on how a contract is worded, he could claim that you don't have the right to take off your shirt in public and display the tattoo at all. Or ever display the tattoo on the internet. He should be more worried about another tattooer stealing it, not targeting you, unless you planned to sell the design to someone else - which is legit to request that you don't do. It's a screwy world. Don't sign any contracts without asking some really serious questions first.

tbh, I signed the contract over 6 years ago, so the details are hazy..

some of it had to with copyright, others had to do with health disclaimers and about another whole page of stuff. Whilst I agree with your sentiments I guess it just the price of getting a tattoo of said artist. If you don't want to sign it, then don't get the tattoo I guess.

My guess is this practice will become more common going forward as legal requirements become more stringent regarding a whole host of things..

QUOTE]rather than some bikie who couldn't give two fucks about the tattoo's just wants to collect his $$$

This, my friend... is a very bold statement. Some of the most honourable men I know may meet this judgemental opinion.

I wouldn't walk into an art gallery if you paid me. It would bore me to tears.

It appears very apparent that tattooing for you & I hold two completely different cultural origins.

And with that, for respect to this forum, I shall leave this at that. Enjoy your art collection champ.

Obviously we disagree on this point and perhaps I painted too broad a brush.

But if you can honestly say the Australian tattoo industry and subsequently the quality of its tattoos hasn't suffered because almost 100% of street shops in the country are controlled or taxed by bikies I think you have your eyes shut.

Yes there are some bikies who dedicated tattoo artists and produce good work but far more often than not they are simply there to make a legal profit.

Though I don't believe everything that is written, this is an illuminating article

Dark secret of Queensland's tattoo industry and link to bikies | News.com.au

On a side note but, cause I teach legal principles & help manage common law claims against the organisation....Australia is now the leading country in the world...per person/ per capita that launch civil law claims against an individual or company. One would not even condone that thought 20 years ago.

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I must say, this is truly disappointing.

to be fair I think the mainstreaming of tattoos whilst doing many negative things has actually increased the quality of the art. I mean design/fine art students are now realizing its possible to make a living doing tattoos and eventually branch that talent out to other creative fields.

I mean Jun didn't go the traditional shop apprenticeship route, he started tattooing himself, went to a fine art school and then apprenticed under jose lopez and baby ray (some of the creators of fine black and grey chicano style). His work is much better for it and his subject matter totally different.

for me I feel this is a huge positive for the tattoo world in general, rather than some bikie who couldn't give two fucks about the tattoo's just wants to collect his $$$

Who's tattooing you @nomadland?

Jun Cha

https://www.facebook.com/JUNCHApage

JUN CHA

You had to sign a disclaimer for your tattoos? Man...this world is changing in a direction I just don't understand.

I grew up on the streets hanging out in biker run shops. It was the old time culture that attracted me to the lifestyle. I couldn't even fathom such a request. If a fella said to me but, Mick, do us a fave will ya mate & don't plaster our work all over FB until such and such, I'de say, no worries mate! That's the only disclaimer I'm used to...a mans word. Not having a shot mate, it's just foreign policy to me that's all. I suppose this is what we call the generation gap, but I'm fuckin' glad I grew up in the generation I did man.

Face tattoos. Never for me either. It took me 28 years to hit my hands solid, and that was only working on the old time aspect of the no hands/ face rule unless already suited.

Cliffe Clayton, my original Tattooer back in The Valley @ High Energy Tattoo in the mid 80's said to me one night when I walked in drunk on my 19th birthday asking him to tattoo my left hand..

"Son, ya might not understand this now, but there's gonna be at least one time in your life, just once that ya wished you were never tattooed, and for that one reason, I don't wanna be the man who made you regret that moment"

Now, I was 19, drunk and replied with the usual "she'll be farrrkin right Cliffe" attitude. But that statement stuck with me all my life, and then there came that day which I understood exactly what he meant to which I silently thanked him for it.

His next words to me went along the lines of, "ya got fuckin' 3 seconds to now get out of my shop c*unt before I punch you out the door"

The second wise bit of advice he gave me that night. :)

But ya know. We're all big boys playing in a big boys arena, and if your decision is to tattoo your face Oz, that's your journey. I'de be interested to see & hear what ya got planned mate.

Mick,

I cant speak for all tattoo artists as I have only ever been tattooed by the same guy but I have a feeling my artist is well ahead of the bell curve.

I think he understands that tattooing whilst truly an art form in itself can be branched out into other creative areas. The disclaimer part is a much about publicity as it is about him using my tattoos or their imagery on things like t-shirts, paintings etc and me not suing him saying those images are mine. effectively what the legal disclaimer does is say although its my skin, they are his designs. I think if he'd simply asked me I would have done it anyway, but not everyone in the world is like me and trust me americans love abit of litigation. Think he is just covering his bases.

in regards to the head face tats, think for now im going to work on the suit and leave those areas to last. So probably 10-15 yrs from now...Just wanting to get some advice or discuss with ppl who want them or have them..

Hey my names Blake. I'm 19 years old and I currently have 2 tattoo's.

This is my only decent tattoo that I have. Was thinking about adding color to it, If I were to add color to it it'd either be black and blue or black blue and purple. What do you think I should do with it? Also was wondering if anyone has any ideas how I can make it flow with my body more? I think once I add color it will flow better.

no offence mate but that tattoo is horrible. best advice, laser it then cover it and don't go back to the same artist.

Cheers

Oz.

Face tattoos aren't my thing and won't ever be my thing, but you should post up some pictures of your suit. When you started here you were 130 hours in, and you're at over 200 in half a year, and getting it done half way across the world too...that's some crazy progress. I'd love to see it.

Have in the last 6 months sat for 2 x 3 day sessions..about 30 to 35 hours each..in the process of finishing my back plus left leg and well as a few touch ups on the neck. Progress remains slow as a couple hours on each body part dosent really equal much progress. However given that I have to sit for such long sessions and back to back its the only way pain wise that I can do it. Annoyingly I had to sign a disclaimer which means I don't actually own the rights to my tattoo's, so cant show them until they are published by the artist..but if you PM me id be happy to send you some snaps.

Cheers

Oz.

Was searching through the forum and couldn't find a thread on this specifically.

In the process of extending my neck tattoo's up onto the back of my head and maybe in the future extending these to the front of my face.

Just to a nip the inevitable 'the face/head is a huge step', 'will change your life/appearance/people's opinions of you' in the bud, I have over 200 hours of work currently on me including hands, neck and one below my left eye, I know what I getting into.

any others out there with face/head tattoo's or thinking of getting them?

if you do have them what's the pain like? what was the experience like? if not but are planning to get them what designs/styles are you looking at?

Lets have a discussion..

Cheers,

Oz

not sure if this has been mentioned already but the knee (specifically the back) was one of the most painful places I have tattooed (worse than the ribs etc). Not for the faint hearted.

Good luck,

Oz.

I second everyones opinion..

Just jumped on to say I love that octopus...

cheers

Oz.

for anyone who feels what there putting on there tattoos isn't working try this.

http://www.dollyrouge.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/bepanthen1.jpg

started with the idea to have a suit. black and grey (renaissance style) with a history theme.

currently have a left sleeve Caesar V Hannibal (rome v carthage)

right sleeve Genghis Khan and Alexander the great (kinda a horse inspired theme)

back piece is saladin with background the Dome of the rock.

Knights Templar right leg sleeve (half finished)

and looking to start my left leg but no theme as of yet.

still to do:

front neck piece, finish hands, finish right leg, start left leg and chest and lower stomach. From start to finish should be about a 20 year process.

My opinion, one style, one theme looks better and flows better. Its why Japanese suits have soo much power because there scale is much larger from the start.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but can we talk about something more exciting than money? Like, I dunno, baked goods? Sexy hairy man legs? (I love that almost every picture appearing in the widget right now is of hairy man legs.) It just seems like the topic of tipping has been exhausted. Perhaps it's not my place as a non-moderator to say this, though.

Hair removal is actually one I've wondered about - if it's not a part of your body that's usually shaved, is it better or worse to shave beforehand?

don't shave. If you do it yourself its possible that the area could develop a rash etc before you get to the artist in question. If its the legs for men, you can clipper it beforehand but don't razor it, let the artist do that

Whilst I understand where you are coming from, I can't help but feel that there are more similarities than you'd think.

I am a bartender, I'm not a college kid working in a bar for some extra cash or someone who can't find any other form of employment. This is the profession that will feed my family someday, and I take my work seriously. When you go into a bar and order an Old Fashioned, your not just buying a drink, your buying a memory and an experience- you should be treated with attention, care and respect.

Tipping is a recognition that you have received that respect, if your bartender doesn't do this then you shouldn't tip him. He needs to learn. I don't think it really matters if you run food or make beautiful tattoos for a living, you tip because you appreciate the service you've received.

I always tip my tattooer and I'm super pleased to learn that some of that tip will make its way to the front desk, because a good tattoo shop, like a good bar is a rare and wonderful thing and i can imagine it takes a hell of a lot of work to get right.

sorry going to have to disagree with you here..

Tipping is a custom invented by big business so they don't have to pay you a decent hourly wage.

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Yeah I probably shouldn't have mentioned that, I have started tipping since, I understand the way it works and tip everything in America or Canada depending on where I am,

It's just a big cultural thing from England, where it's more the price you see is the price you pay unless the service is excellent, and usually only in a restaurant

I do love my tattoos and this thread has changed my opinion of the matter a lot, not that I wasn't doing it on purpose before it had just never crossed my mind

And thank you I've got a healed one from Bert I should post soon

Don't bow to the resident bully's pressure mate.

Ive from OZ and have got over 200 hours from an American artist in the US and never once tipped!

Artists also need to understand that clients from other places might not know or understand local customs and be understanding of that. Generally speaking any US artist worth travelling to get a piece off from half a world away charges very high hourly rates for this exact reason. A rate that usually prices out most US citizens as there minimum wage is quite a bit lower.

edit. If the poster in question spent the same amount of time on getting better at tattooing, rather than posting on here, he might not have to whinge and bitch about not getting tipped as he could charge a higher hourly rate.

Hey all! Just bouncing around the intrawebs trying to do some research on after care, pain expectations, etc. for a full back tattoo I'm about to begin this weekend. So glad to have found this site!

do you have any other tattoos?

backs generally not too bad, though there are some spots (spine, kidneys) that really suck. Back can hurt more due to the amount of work involved, so if you have a low pain tolerance go for the smaller sessions.

After care is the same for all tattoos, except for your back you will need someone to apply the cream for you and you should avoid sleeping on it for at least a couple of days all the way up to a week.

If you have no choice and have to do long sessions but have poor pain tolerance I recommend you asking the artist to do it in sections. This allows the artist to alternate between outline, shading etc..which can make a huge difference

Good luck!

Oz.

Silhouette wasn't the proper term, I meant "negative space"...Something like this:

I like that piece, Jun Cha on Matt Kemp I think..

as much as I like the tat it wouldn't work as a cover up as your artwork is already so black..

'white' tribal is probably the worst thing to try and cover up, if I was you, go the laser route, then go for the cover up..

Hello, my name is Mary and I'm new to this forum!

I guess you could classify me as a tattoo (and piercing) enthusiast. I currently have seven tattoos, a few rather large, that I have collected over just a year and a half. I plan on uploading pictures soon if anybody is curious :)

My main goal in joining these types of forums is to read and learn from others' experiences, as well as learn about the art of tattooing in general. I am by no means looking to become an artist myself, but am very fascinated by the details of it.

I hope to contribute using my personal experience as well!

what kinds of tattoo's are you into? what projects you looking at attempting going forward?

welcome..

Oz

Yeah, it is a wide array of styles.

The artist I go to freestyled my left arm to tie in my Megadeth tattoo with my Live Free or Die tattoo, neither of which he did to begin with. He will be the only one touching my skin from here on out.

That's why I haven't nailed down specifics, plus the artist will branch out and do things on his own when he actually sits down and is working in my skin. He is brutally honest if something won't work....I guess it helps that we were friends before he started working on me.

Same artist, good relationship and one who is brutally honest. This sounds like a good recipe for success.

You also seem to be understanding that for an artist to do there best work they need to be given artistic freedom, I tend to feel that with my pieces the work is probably more the artists than mine even though it's of course me who wears it..after 500 hours and 9 yrs my skin has become almost his own..this is certainly a big selling point of this type of tattoo commitment. Keep lst updated and stick in it for the long haul.

Oz

The first thing is to finish my Star Wars sleeve. That should be done by October. One leg is going to be devoted to GI JOE, and the other is ancient Egyptian themed. I just have to figure out which way I want to go. My back will be the last thing I have done. I don't have ideas for that as of yet...but i may use the Egyptian theme on my back if I decide to do an 80s skate theme on one leg.

Sounds like a lot of different styles...

Just be careful as once you start reaching the 75% mark your tattoos will become more suit and less one of pieces, this is an important consideration as once joined they tend to clash more. At the very least I recommend going to the same artist and making them aware of your future plans so they can factor this in.

Good luck with it all and keep LST updated..

Cheers

Oz

Thanks all. I have big plans, but they are on hold until fall due to my need to be in the water during the summers here in NC.

what kinda of big plans?

Think im around the 75% tattooed mark and am always interested in talking about big projects...

I second all the above.

your line work is terrible (not straight and at times you have put the needle way too far into the skin).

you seem to have some creativity though, take a step back, go back to the basics, maybe even attend an art or design class and you will be much better for it.

Good luck with it all though..

cheers

OZ

@ Keekatzz. We all have a different mindset why we choose to tattoo. When you have a different kind of motivation, you must expect not to receive the feedback you were probably looking for.

I don't explain my mindset why I do what I do, & I don't expect to understand your motivation.

I got my first tattoos at 17, which I still have & still love. I wouldn't get them now, but I wouldn't cover them also.

Some though, I have. Faaarkin, who cares.

If your dead set on leopard print down the back. Do it. Just do your research with a tattooer who can execute the design solid & kick arse.

You see, for most of us, the back tattoo is prime real estate and holds a very special meaning to us, but your motivation to tattoo is different to those of us who understand this, so walk the path you feel you need to.

Good luck with it.

couldn't have said it better myself...

Oztattoo

Thanks for chiming in. I'm not looking for the Japanese styled tattoos. I think the idea I've got right now is a killer for the back. Why do you say I won't be able to do it justice? Time and money isn't an issue, but what am I missing out on on the experience part (what does that mean anyway)?

Orangutango

I've booked in a consultation with Jin O for April 25. She specialises in realist work and I like the look of her portfolio. If any of you guys want to check out her bio I'd appreciate the feedback.

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Many people told me not to get my first tattoo on my ribs, especially so large. Why would I get anything else though? If I want a back piece shouldn't I just go for it rather than "copping out" with another design somewhere else?

The experience part was referring to whether or not in 10 yrs you will still like the style you gave chosen..your back is your biggest piece of tattoo territory..dnt use it until your ideas are set...

And sorry mate I might respect your taste slightly more if you didn't suggest the artist/shop that you have..

Clearly time and money seem to be an issue if your going there