JOLLY J

To wait a long time for a notable artist like Grime or Filip is understandable,but I have seen artists that aren't even very good that are "booked solid" for several months. Like Deb said some artists only book 1 appointment a day.That equals out most times to be a little over 20 tattoos a month,while other artists do that many in a couple of days.Being the "hardest artist to book" may mean that they are very good but it could also mean that the artist has no work ethic.I think a lot of times artists do this to stroke their own egos and seem more in demand than they actually are.
I get a lot of customers saying that they went to other shops for something small like a name or something and they are told that they can't get it done because everyone at that shop is fully booked,but the customer says that there were like 5 artists there and none of them were tattooing or drawing custom pieces,but instead just hanging out and playing video games or watching TV.
It is a lot like people in the 1970s waiting on line with a few hundred people to get into an exclusive club like studio 54 or something,only to finally be let inside to find out that there are only a handful of people inside the club.What I am trying to say is that while for a great artist it is worth the wait,in most cases it is just a manufactured waiting period and a marketing gimmick to charge more and act exclusive........just putting on airs.

To wait a long time for a notable artist like Grime or Filip is understandable,but I have seen artists that aren't even very good that are "booked solid" for several months. Like Deb said some artists only book 1 appointment a day.That equals out most times to be a little over 20 tattoos a month,while other artists do that many in a couple of days.Being the "hardest artist to book" may mean that they are very good but it could also mean that the artist has no work ethic.I think a lot of times artists do this to stroke their own egos and seem more in demand than they actually are.
I get a lot of customers saying that they went to other shops for something small like a name or something and they are told that they can't get it done because everyone at that shop is fully booked,but the customer says that there were like 5 artists there and none of them were tattooing or drawing custom pieces,but instead just hanging out and playing video games or watching TV.
It is a lot like people in the 1970s waiting on line with a few hundred people to get into an exclusive club like studio 54 or something,only to finally be let inside to find out that there are only a handful of people inside the club.What I am trying to say is that while for a great artist it is worth the wait,in most cases it is just a manufactured waiting period and a marketing gimmick to charge more and act exclusive........just putting on airs.

I joined last sparrow specifically because I found that this seems to be the only place online discussing this,and in my opinion it is a growing problem.It may be okay for the non-tattooer to be an owner of a shop,but for an artist it can be hell and for so many reasons!I have had many bad experiences working at shops run by non-tattooers,too many to list here.
The main problem is that the tattoo business is a whole different animal.Running other types of business establishments is not the same at all,and nowadays far too many people get a decent size tax return & a book on business and think that they know what they are doing,because they spent a few hours in a tattoo shop.They all spit out catch phrases that they acquire in these books.I had a non-tattooer recently tell me(after putting me through a bunch of unnecessary nonsense) that he worked in the"retail" business before & that the "retail" business can sometimes be rough.I told him that he should take it up with his "wholesaler",but I don't think he was bright enough to understand what I was saying.A lot of these "business" people also don't understand why if you get a detailed description of what the customer wants from them and then when you spend 6 hours drawing it,only to have the customer come in for their appointment and say "yeah,I was talking to my friends and I have decided that instead of that I want this...." why you won't draw them something else after they have wasted 6 hours of your life that you will never get back.I don't think that is hard to understand,but what do I know,I have only been tattooing for two decades.
I have a phrase-"the customer isn't always right,you can only try to do right by your customers".Most non-tattoo artists that run shops don't understand this.If someone comes in with say for instance a horrible maze-looking tribal design that their little brother drew at school on a spiral notebook and I tell them that it isn't really a drawing that translates to a tattoo and that I can draw something that is similar,but better (rather than saying that the drawing is shit and insulting them).Yet still they are insistent that they want it EXACTLY like it is on the paper,the non-artist owner that owns the place will say,"that's what they want,so just do it!"-not understanding that they are trying to force me into doing a bad tattoo,which in turn would give me and their shop a bad reputation.
The non-tattooer also normally doesn't do research before they open a shop,I think they just watch television shows & figure that is how it is supposed to be.So when they are building up the inside of a shop,they say"okay I will have a row of barber chairs over there that 5 or 6 artists can work at (in this small town) ".Not realizing that without dividers of some sort if the customer wants a tattoo in a private place that they will be exposed in front of everyone else in the shop and a small town doesn't have enough business to support 5 or 6 artists.They are worried about having a koi pond,crushed red velvet curtains,leather couches & flat screens,but don't worry about things like a thermographic copier,because the artist can hand trace everything and what do they care if they make the artist work way more than they have to,it isn't making them work any harder.
When a non-tattooer opens a shop they will post something online that normally says "No rock stars!".I have grown to realize that this is code for:leave your individuality and self respect at the door,because really they are looking for rock stars.I am one of the least pretentious artists that there is.I just want to make a living and do great tattoos,which after all these years of denial & error I have finally become very good at my work.I love tattooing,but I am an artist not an entertainer,some people may be both,but I choose not to be a part of that.The non-tattooing owner doesn't seem to understand why I don't want 10 people leaning over me while I'm working,all taking photos & video of me on thier cellphones.They don't understand why I don't work at conventions and have no urge to.They don't understand why I don't care how many people press the like button on their shop's facebook page,or why I don't want to pose for a group photo outside their shop with everyone folding thier arms and acting tougher than they are in their Ed Hardy shirts and with thier fauxhawks.I don't want a biography on your stupid website,let my work speak for itself! Some job postings online say "must have own clientele,you will not be getting walk-ins"-that is just an insult to anyone with any intelligence,especially if your not looking to work near where you live & looking to relocate.What would they be doing for their half of a 50/50 split,providing paper towels?
Most of all I have had problems with non-tattoo artist owners trying to give away my hard work for nothing."Welcome to our tattoo family,now we will take advantage of you like we do our real family" they might as well be saying when they say"we are giving away $200 gift certificates on the radio,because it will be good for business!" .Who's business?-not mine,I don't work for free."we are running a special:as long as you can sit for $250,it will be good for our business!".Yeah,sure,maybe for you-you don't have to depend on this for your living,you have another job as a contractor or a bartender or whatever it is that you do when you are not here most of the time.I appreciate you stopping by for an hour every day and bitching about how tired you are & how hard your primary job is & then telling me something I should do differently.You must know more than me,you have done 5 tattoos in your lifetime & have been in the industry for a staggering 6 months!with expertise like that,you must know what you are talking about!
It feels good to vent!
Can I get an Amen?

Like Shannon said there are exceptions to every rule. Ultimately I would imagine if you hire the right tattooers take a hands off approach and let them do their thing, a shop would run fine and it does because it is run like a tattoo shop and it would be hard to tell whether it was run by a tattooer or not.
I know one shop that used to be pretty talked about shop in the area and was in fact owned by a tattooer and still is. But his idea was to hire a shop manager who was basically a guy who graduated business school and he had put a few tattoos on. He interpreted his job to be to tell the tattooers how to conduct business and somehow had the impression he was their boss and could dictate when they came to work and how they conduct business. It really didn't go over well with anyone and he has basically in 6 years went from having the best shop in town to hiring kids right out of tattoo school. Everyone else moved on and either opened up their own shops or founds shops more than willing to hire them even though he got rid of his manager and runs the shop himself at this point.
In some ways I have a similar position, but don't consider myself anyone's boss and I guess understand my role . I am there to make tattooers jobs easier and to talk to people and help them get the best tattoo out of their idea. Our shop isn't the busiest or the most popular but it's a tattoo shop first and foremost and that it something that everyone here takes pride in.

To wait a long time for a notable artist like Grime or Filip is understandable,but I have seen artists that aren't even very good that are "booked solid" for several months. Like Deb said some artists only book 1 appointment a day.That equals out most times to be a little over 20 tattoos a month,while other artists do that many in a couple of days.Being the "hardest artist to book" may mean that they are very good but it could also mean that the artist has no work ethic.I think a lot of times artists do this to stroke their own egos and seem more in demand than they actually are.
I get a lot of customers saying that they went to other shops for something small like a name or something and they are told that they can't get it done because everyone at that shop is fully booked,but the customer says that there were like 5 artists there and none of them were tattooing or drawing custom pieces,but instead just hanging out and playing video games or watching TV.
It is a lot like people in the 1970s waiting on line with a few hundred people to get into an exclusive club like studio 54 or something,only to finally be let inside to find out that there are only a handful of people inside the club.What I am trying to say is that while for a great artist it is worth the wait,in most cases it is just a manufactured waiting period and a marketing gimmick to charge more and act exclusive........just putting on airs.

im just askin , how do we know that chick aint got any? i was helping/ teaching good time charlie's daughter ,Reina ,to tattoo about 20 yrs ago. she didnt have much. And what about Filip Leu, i think he started at the age of 12 ,professionally , i dont recall, but i dont think he had too many. dont get me wrong, i see crappy stuff by people that got no business in the business all the time.but anomalies do exist. im always amazed by the generally unsmart,hehe, and their willingness to sit down with a practitioner that obviously doesnt fit the mold. that chick,excuse me, appeared to know how to do it. she was using disposable tubes, so maybe she learned to do an eyebrow and lip liner first? this whole damn biz is in brutal flux. god help us everyone. If i could go back in time i would. PS , im watchin a f#ckin rerun of miamink and Kat von namestealer just said she started when she was 14 , how inked was she? we all started somewhere. It is easy to throw rocks , if you know what i mean. ask anyone that can tattoo, we all suck in the beginning. PPS : its hard to weed out the f#CKERS.It is thankfully,a free,well sort of, country. lets not get to cocky. I have quickly become a "fan" of this site, im reconnecting with old friends. but everyones opinion doesnt matter , even mine. PPS; GTC started in his car in Wchita with all his designs on the headliner, that wasnt that long ago.hehe. I think he told me he first tattooed his 10 yr old brother.scott's got a early aaron cain on his chest, not so nice. we all started somewhere.

To wait a long time for a notable artist like Grime or Filip is understandable,but I have seen artists that aren't even very good that are "booked solid" for several months. Like Deb said some artists only book 1 appointment a day.That equals out most times to be a little over 20 tattoos a month,while other artists do that many in a couple of days.Being the "hardest artist to book" may mean that they are very good but it could also mean that the artist has no work ethic.I think a lot of times artists do this to stroke their own egos and seem more in demand than they actually are.
I get a lot of customers saying that they went to other shops for something small like a name or something and they are told that they can't get it done because everyone at that shop is fully booked,but the customer says that there were like 5 artists there and none of them were tattooing or drawing custom pieces,but instead just hanging out and playing video games or watching TV.
It is a lot like people in the 1970s waiting on line with a few hundred people to get into an exclusive club like studio 54 or something,only to finally be let inside to find out that there are only a handful of people inside the club.What I am trying to say is that while for a great artist it is worth the wait,in most cases it is just a manufactured waiting period and a marketing gimmick to charge more and act exclusive........just putting on airs.

CUSTOMER RESPECT...OF COURSE IT EXISTS...WHERE WOULD WE BE WITHOUT CUSTOMERS.... It is very varied...like someone said there are all kinds of people..so there are all kinds of tattooers....Most people when they first come in the shop think i am scowling at them...but i cannot see past 15 feet so I am trying to discern who it is....
I work in a street shop..I always have worked in a street shop...I like it.....I always liked Mikey perfettos(pronounciation..not spelling) way of running a shop...the dry erase board you put your name on...whether you want a back piece or a litlle kanji...you get your name on the board..you will get tattooed that day... he takes the board away at a certain point and you gotta come back tommorrow...Also his customers are fiercely loyal...people go there with sleeves or work from really great and well known artists and his customers will look at it and say.."those are nice...but look at the ones Mikey put on me"
Tattooing has turned into a real whirlwind...more people today getting tattooed than ever...more tattooers tattooing than ever...more personalities....I promise i will not go into a "back in the day" rant.. I am not sure if it was better back then anymore but with the tattooer and tattooed population exploding that adds alot into what is happening...With all these people comes all these personalities and egos and behavior....
It is a imperative for a tattooer to remember that his customer may have worked 40 hours for the 200 bucks you are gonna get in an hour or two...and it is also hard to have 6 or 7 18 year old girls ask you'what place hurts the least on the body and i can hide it from my parents" naturally I think...if you want a tattoo you will get it where you want it regardless of the pain...it is a tightrope or have people coming at you all day asking"how much would you have charged for this?" rolling up their sleeve...
but it is important for customers to remember that a tattoo machine is not a magic wand...(well Id swear it is in some peoples hands)Like all the young tattoo-ologists that come with their friend to get their first and you put the pattern on and they ask their friend rather than look in the mirror...or the facebook thing...tattooing with people trying to film it to put it on line with their phones...or when you go to dip your machine in ink they slip a camera in and take a shot of a pattern with one line....I mean it is alot....
then the memorial tattoo.... they are going thru the biggest changes in their life and you are poking holes in them...there is so much going on that people do not realize....and while all that is going on you may have had a fight with your significant other, or your kid or grandkid is sick....but you have to leave all that outside of what you are doing..
Then we have that all too ga-narly EGO...on both sides of the fence...Like in sobriety at the end of a 12 step meeting they say the lords prayer and I heard a guy say "deliver us from ego" rather than "deliver us from evil"...ego is a huge thing...more now than ever...Opinions(like mine i am typing out now) are a big factor too....what was it rollo said"alot of tattooers are building monuments to themselves rather than doing what the customer wants"
people get tattooed for all kinds of reasons..and sometimes people think a tattoo is gonna change their life...its not...it is just them with a tattoo...
Then the cool factor... right??? I had a guy tattooing for a couple of days at the shop who used to have a serious attitude...not anymore..and i asked him about it.and he said he learned it..like watching more 'experienced" tattooers act bothered by the customers...Its actually pretty funny when you think about it...but he realized that is what he thought he was suppose to act like...and you tattooers would laugh if you knew they guy he learned from...this guy was notorius like sitting behind a counter with his hands hidden smiling and talking to the customer while flipping them off with both hands
Most Tattooers start hanging around shops very young...they are very impressionable...it is the old nature versus nurture arguement..and one day the nature wins over if they were nurtured liked the guy i just mentioned...unless they are naturally nitwits to begin with...but they may have learned that arrogant behavior....but usually they will lose it if it is in their nature....
Or how about they act like they think they are suppose to act because they heard some story about a big noise tattooer acted towards a customer...the story is completley blown out of proportion and when you get the real skinny on what happened it all made sense....
Tattooing is hard work...most people that spend an hour in a shop that you spend your whole life in probably get the perception it is easy....IT IS VERY DRAINING.....I mean ass kicking as hard as running a jack hammer or ditch digging(I guess i still am kinda)ass kicking...
but the customers are the real reward...that is why it gets good...and I have a alot of friends that agree...However the customer also makes it the biggest struggle...
what is that saying..'people only ask how your doing so they don't let on how little they care"...Ok a customer books an appointment(thats why i like walk ins..I tell them i will get em tattooed if they can wait...for the people in front of them or the hours it takes to draw the picture they showed you on their phone...)is every single customers printer always out of ink...
But lets go with an appointment..Ok the guy works all week and he has an appointment at 5 on friday...he is running a little late but figures it is his time anyway so what is 15 minutes...at the same time at the shop the artist has a guy there with the cash that wants a small one...well is the appointment coming?...if i tell the guy at the shop no and the customer does not show up i am out both tattoos and cannot pay my starbucks debit card(yeah right...somethin important like that)...whatever...so you take the guy there and then the appt. shows up... he flies right up to your station and you tell him.."i got this one infront of you and then i will get to you..."he is pissed...pacing...but he will get over it....He shoulda been on time..I am a nut about being on time....it is all about the individuals personality...
Ok or you are working on a tattoo that some guy worked all week for the $ and another customer comes up and wants to ask you how you can add on to a tattoo..and you try politely to tell them.."hey i gotta do this right now when i get to you you will have my undivided attention" in which the customer replies.."do you think cherry blossoms will work?" like you did not say anything....usually we are guarded until we see where they are coming from...
there is a whole lot going on before you walk in the shop....
The customers are usually intimidated to begin with...they think their questions will be dumb...but i always ask them what they do...lets say they cut hair..i do not know anything about that..like they do not know anything about tattooing...of course they have questions....fire away....but when you get the customer that wants you to give them the answer THEY WANT..not the truth...tattooing is so overrun now they will find someone who will give them the answer they want...maybe not the tattoo but the answer....
People love their tattoos....I was told that very young by a great tattooer....remember people love thier tattoos...I have seen a perfectly good reaper done on a customer by someone and had a tattooer look at it and say 'who did that reaper?...they shaded it backwards..." (actually it is that cliff raven reaper..it is not shaded backwards it is like that on the flash) so a week later i get a call from the customer"shane can you fix my reaper?"...Why? whats wrong with it? it is because that guy told you it was shaded wrong? it was fine and you loved it for 2 years until some nitiwt says something about it...you loved it when you picked it....that is so sad...
Anyway....It is a fine line......but there are all kinds of tattooers..like there are all kinds of customers...
Another older tattooer told me when i was young that it is the experience...the whole of it...someone who bumps into a world famous guy tattooing them may do a beautiful eagle but they like the one that we, as tattooers, may not think is the best technically because they dug the experience people get tattooed for all knids of reasons and art is relative......
My longest friendships are with tattooers...in spite of us being tattooers..some i may not see everyday or every year but when i do it is like not a day has passed....and in every tattooer there is a customer...WE ARE CUSTOMERS...all of us....and regardless of what they may portray they all put there pants on one leg at a time...noone truly shits beige....
I do not take breaks....not rest breaks anyway..i may have to pour some color..but I usually do not stop to smoke or coffee or eat...I barely do that between tattoos...and i know i am not as good as my peers...but i have been around it and done it since i was a little kid and i know part of the reason i am so swamped every single day is customer relations...THANK GOD I AM SO SWAMPED....
gratitude...being grateful that we have the best job in the world...in spite of the bad backs,neck extra 20 pounds the lack of privacy,the hurt hands and wrists,bad eyes,the judgements,bad diet,the intra industry personality wars, who knows who, thousands of people chasing the same nickel....the cant get to sleep because i crossed that line on the eagle feather...,is my dick too small( where did that one come from) the IRS,state laws,the internet etc...etc.etc...it is still the best job in the world....
The customer is the most important part of all of this....no question....it is a two way street and keeping your side clean is the best thing you can do....
PS i did an article/ interview with Big bad Jack Rudy that is coming out in TAM #25...check it out....

After subjecting y'all to my shit, I actually motivated to read a few more of these comments . . .
Dude, Pauly was forced to wait TWO HOURS after his appointment, and was subjected to further disrespect thereafter. I've seen that type of behavior countless times. Pauly's being eminently reasonable, not hyper-sensitive. He wasn't asking to be "BFF's" with everyone in the fucking shop, he was asking for courtesy and a respectful gesture. That's understandable, considering how inconvenienced he'd already been by the shops lassitude and egotism. I commend him for standing up for himself. Guarantee if Pauly'd stripped naked and had a Kuronuma bodysuit, these guys woulda been arm-wrestling to suck his cock. Then again, most tattooers don't even know who Kuronuma is. Hopeless idiots.
Hell, one of the big-name hotshots I mentioned above had to be dragged out of bed to tattoo me two hours late a couple years ago. I was a touch peeved, but the way he greeted me with a look of contrition and a handshake, coupled with his subsequent treatment of me and the diligence he committed to the tattoo, earned him a $50 tip. Charity's a two-way street, though. Tattooers are not more important than the rest of us peasants.
I can see why tattooers want to eat cyanide when groupie clients want to be best buds with them. Pauly was not asking for that. He was asking, as one of you said, to be treated professionally.
Most of my friends are tattooers, now that I think about it. They hate tattooers passionately, as well, for good reason.
The whole thing's an adolescently-fixated joke. Glad there are a few tattooers who see through the weakness. They're good arm wrestlers, too! I love good arm wrestlers. God Bless!

Oh, I forgot to ostentatiously name-drop Fred Corbin among the pantheon of big-name tattooers that I'm cool enough to have tattoos from. I probably neglected him in this discussion as, in my experience, he was as far from disrespectful as you can get. Dude was fucking cool to me the first time I ever travelled out to the Bay to get tattooed in 2002. I greatly appreciated it.
Oh, and one other note: With all due respect, I'd argue that the relationship of collector to tattooer, and vice-versa, is not analogous to that of bartender or sales clerk to customer. I don't spend three hours naked with the gas station attendant as they grope and permanently alter the appearance of my ass. I do with Tim Lehi. No wonder tattooers hate people. I would hate all that intimacy with people, and this is coming from a personable guy who can muster a semblance of social skills, at times. I can see how being "nice" to people all the time and babysitting them through what some perceive as some mystical rite of passage would get old, fast. So I sympathize with tattooers' plight. At the same time, I'm not exactly a fucking imbecile, and I've done my homework. It was cool of Dick Stell to say to me last month "You'd be a great shop owner or manager. You know more about tattooing than some tattooers." I'm the first to acknowledge that I don't know shit about tattooing, drawing, or painting, technically. However, if I haven't developed at least a mediocre eye for the aesthetic over 15 years of study, I'm retarded. Problem is, everything becomes a fucking insecure little boys' pissing contest. I really don't give a fuck, I just want to learn shit. If I have any insight to offer anyone who's sincerely interested in this bullshit (and not ascending the social hierarchy of "cool"), great. There are shit tons of tattooers who know more about this crap than I ever will, and if they're willing to part with some of their knowledge, I'm grateful. It seems pretty simple. I swore a lot in that paragraph.
Tattooing is rock-star shit, ego-trip-wise. Difference is, you don't interact with rock stars. The reason why so many tattooers are so disrespectful is because they can get away with it. I had issues with a few of the tattooers I encountered right from the get-go, when I first started getting tattooed. Why? Well, I'm an adult, and I demand some modicum of respect . . . And I happen to get along with almost everyone I meet. If you have a problem with me, it's your problem. I'm far from perfect, but I treat others respectfully. I see right through these idiots' weak facade. It's boring and pathetic. Not everyone's as dumb as they think they are. If this particular breed of person who makes a living as a tattooer wants to see an imbecile, find a fucking mirror. Can I get a witness??

Paulywhore: You are correct, period. Not that it's a prerequisite for seeing simple insecure egomania for what it is, but I have a decent amount of experience from the collector's perspective. I've been lucky enough to have been tattooed by the following, among others: Lehi, Rassier, Malone, Sylvia, Grime, Don Nolan, Bert Krak, Stell, Adam Ciferri, Seth Ciferri, Whitehead, Brooks, Spanks, Roberts, Conn . . . and my best bud Kyle Franklin! You don't need a fancy bullshit worthless psychology degree from a "Little Ivy", which I happen to have, to deduce that most tattooers succomb to the temptations of warped adolescent egomania. There are exceptions, but those guys (and gals) tend to get so disillusioned with tattooing that they quit. Read Mike Malone's letters to Keith Underwood in recent issues of TAM. Spot-on. He rags on "cool guys" who are too self-absorbed to actually learn about the fucking artform. I've wondered if the absolute elite echelon isn't as likely to be possessed by this meek demon. Hell, if you spend all your time seeking empty accolades and proverbial fellatio, it might be hard to fully concentrate on something of substance. Then again, I don't know: Bullshit megalomania permeates tattooing from the bottom up, doesn't matter how well you paint or tattoo. Power corrupts, in every context. If you're used to having your ass kissed, you come to expect it. Fucking pathetic. I'm sorry these folks are really insecure and immature, but it'd be peachy if they wouldn't take it out on me while I put food in their mouths.
To be fair, at the same time, I can totally see why tattooers get sick of clients. I couldn't do their job. Hell, I can be annoying as fuck, myself. Give me a painkiller and I never shut up. That being said, some of the behavior I've personally experienced and witnessed is absolutely inexcusable. Straight disrespect. Funny thing is, most tattooers are sedentary lumps of shit that couldn't fight their way out of a colostomy bag. Tattoos don't make you tough.
Tattooing's an intimate and intense experience, and, too often, familiarity breeds contempt. Like I said, having spent a fair amount of time in tattoo shops, I can totally see why being a tattooer is the yellow brick road to misanthropy. I hate people, too, but I try to be humble, honest, and respectful. Ya know, all that "Golden Rule" bullshit. Speaking for myself, I'm glad my bodysuit's about done. I'm too old for this shit. It's too much work. God Bless!!

The answers to this thread are simple. There are assholes everywhere. No matter where you are. Nobody likes the I'm too cool for you Tattooer, Bartender, Sales Clerk, whatever. We also don't like the whiny customer, guy who waves his money in your face like he is buying you type, or stalkers, or the never satisfied customer. There is etiquette for any business out there. If you don't act accordingly you will either: Lose customers, Not get served, be asked to leave, or in extreme cases, Beat the Fuck up. You are not the only Tattooer in town, and You are not the only customer in the shop. It's really easy. And if somebody doesn't treat you right....don't come back. That's like the battered wife who stays with her husband. "He mistreats me but I keep going back, whimper, whimper."
Ok I'm done. Get it? Got it? Good.

Greg Irons

And customers often make the assumption that the person booked out the furthest is the best!
I used to work in a shop with 6 other tattooists. We were booked according to seniority at the shop. So, inevitably some were booked out further than others.
A customer would come in only to be told that Joe is booked out for 6 months and Jim for 3 months and 2 months out for Jay and John but You can get in with Deb TOMORROW! Customers assumed then that if you weren't booked you weren't worth waiting for, usually not taking in to account that Jay only booked 1 appt a day or Jim only worked every other week.
People are weird, they like the hard to get, the over priced .

Man, everybody already used my smart-ass answers but the Greg Irons quip was funnier than I could have come up with.
But back to the original question.
This is one of the newer approaches to tattooing that makes me slightly uncomfortable to be honest. Myself and a few tattooers I know and work with have noticed the trend of customers finding a sense of pride in how long they had to wait for their tattoo. As if that makes the tattoo more worthwhile.
With some of the currently living/working tattooers mentioned in this thread, I personally know people (not even on the internet) that have tattoos from all of them. Filip, Horiyoshi III, Shige and Mike Rubendall. Yeah, they had to wait a little while for some of them but not as long as you'd think for others. Mike Roper is a different situation because he makes it deliberately difficult to get in touch with him, which answers the question posed above. But that wasn't really the question that was asked and it's rarely the question that gets asked. The question, or at least the implication, is "who has the longest waiting list' or "who has appointments booked furthest into the future". If I were to be snarky "who gives me the most bragging rights".
For me the hardest people to get a tattoo from are the tattooers who are located furthest away from me. The ones where I have to get off my ass and do something about it. Time is easier to overcome than distance although patience is a different matter. It astonishes me that people call our shop from the outskirts of the city expecting us to change the way we work because they are catching a train to get here. On the other hand, we are humbled and honoured by the people who cross seas and continents to get tattooed regularly with us.
But that's aside from the issue.
Why is it a trend that makes me uncomfortable?
Because I've heard people brag about how long they had to wait for 'x' artist and wear that information like a badge of honour. It feels almost as distasteful as bragging about who charges the most. Yeah, tattoos are for tough guys and tough buys like to brag and maybe that seems harmless, but it makes me uncomfortable and I have trouble clearly explaining why.
Maybe it's because it's a phenomenon spurred on by the internet and the gossipy world of hearsay. Nobody calls and checks with the artists or shops they want to get tattooed at. Nobody travels down to the shop to ask the question. They just ask random strangers on the internet who have a lot of time on their hands and like to talk about something they know nothing about. Then the reality gets lost or twisted and in the end the real information is lost. I see this a lot with regards to the shop I work at. Forums are (or certainly used to be) bursting with 'facts' about how much we charge, how long we take, how far 'x' and 'y' are booked or how long their waiting lists are. Nobody calls the shop to ask and nobody suggests that the person calls to ask.
I know that happens with a lot of things but it seems like this is starting to have a real-world effect, however small. People who wanted tattoos that we would love to do heard that we wouldn't tattoo them at our shop because we were so cool and busy and booked up for decades and rolling around in money 'n' bitches or something. We've heard of this a few times and it seems to be happening more. Yeah, we're busy, you may have to wait a little, maybe not. If someone has contact information, especially a phone number on their website it means that they want you to call.
I'm not really going to touch on the tone of the "are they a fad or are they really worth it?" comment, except to say that if you have to ask, the answer is "no".
Sorry to jump on this fun thread with a rant. I look forward to more witty quips.

I joined last sparrow specifically because I found that this seems to be the only place online discussing this,and in my opinion it is a growing problem.It may be okay for the non-tattooer to be an owner of a shop,but for an artist it can be hell and for so many reasons!I have had many bad experiences working at shops run by non-tattooers,too many to list here.
The main problem is that the tattoo business is a whole different animal.Running other types of business establishments is not the same at all,and nowadays far too many people get a decent size tax return & a book on business and think that they know what they are doing,because they spent a few hours in a tattoo shop.They all spit out catch phrases that they acquire in these books.I had a non-tattooer recently tell me(after putting me through a bunch of unnecessary nonsense) that he worked in the"retail" business before & that the "retail" business can sometimes be rough.I told him that he should take it up with his "wholesaler",but I don't think he was bright enough to understand what I was saying.A lot of these "business" people also don't understand why if you get a detailed description of what the customer wants from them and then when you spend 6 hours drawing it,only to have the customer come in for their appointment and say "yeah,I was talking to my friends and I have decided that instead of that I want this...." why you won't draw them something else after they have wasted 6 hours of your life that you will never get back.I don't think that is hard to understand,but what do I know,I have only been tattooing for two decades.
I have a phrase-"the customer isn't always right,you can only try to do right by your customers".Most non-tattoo artists that run shops don't understand this.If someone comes in with say for instance a horrible maze-looking tribal design that their little brother drew at school on a spiral notebook and I tell them that it isn't really a drawing that translates to a tattoo and that I can draw something that is similar,but better (rather than saying that the drawing is shit and insulting them).Yet still they are insistent that they want it EXACTLY like it is on the paper,the non-artist owner that owns the place will say,"that's what they want,so just do it!"-not understanding that they are trying to force me into doing a bad tattoo,which in turn would give me and their shop a bad reputation.
The non-tattooer also normally doesn't do research before they open a shop,I think they just watch television shows & figure that is how it is supposed to be.So when they are building up the inside of a shop,they say"okay I will have a row of barber chairs over there that 5 or 6 artists can work at (in this small town) ".Not realizing that without dividers of some sort if the customer wants a tattoo in a private place that they will be exposed in front of everyone else in the shop and a small town doesn't have enough business to support 5 or 6 artists.They are worried about having a koi pond,crushed red velvet curtains,leather couches & flat screens,but don't worry about things like a thermographic copier,because the artist can hand trace everything and what do they care if they make the artist work way more than they have to,it isn't making them work any harder.
When a non-tattooer opens a shop they will post something online that normally says "No rock stars!".I have grown to realize that this is code for:leave your individuality and self respect at the door,because really they are looking for rock stars.I am one of the least pretentious artists that there is.I just want to make a living and do great tattoos,which after all these years of denial & error I have finally become very good at my work.I love tattooing,but I am an artist not an entertainer,some people may be both,but I choose not to be a part of that.The non-tattooing owner doesn't seem to understand why I don't want 10 people leaning over me while I'm working,all taking photos & video of me on thier cellphones.They don't understand why I don't work at conventions and have no urge to.They don't understand why I don't care how many people press the like button on their shop's facebook page,or why I don't want to pose for a group photo outside their shop with everyone folding thier arms and acting tougher than they are in their Ed Hardy shirts and with thier fauxhawks.I don't want a biography on your stupid website,let my work speak for itself! Some job postings online say "must have own clientele,you will not be getting walk-ins"-that is just an insult to anyone with any intelligence,especially if your not looking to work near where you live & looking to relocate.What would they be doing for their half of a 50/50 split,providing paper towels?
Most of all I have had problems with non-tattoo artist owners trying to give away my hard work for nothing."Welcome to our tattoo family,now we will take advantage of you like we do our real family" they might as well be saying when they say"we are giving away $200 gift certificates on the radio,because it will be good for business!" .Who's business?-not mine,I don't work for free."we are running a special:as long as you can sit for $250,it will be good for our business!".Yeah,sure,maybe for you-you don't have to depend on this for your living,you have another job as a contractor or a bartender or whatever it is that you do when you are not here most of the time.I appreciate you stopping by for an hour every day and bitching about how tired you are & how hard your primary job is & then telling me something I should do differently.You must know more than me,you have done 5 tattoos in your lifetime & have been in the industry for a staggering 6 months!with expertise like that,you must know what you are talking about!
It feels good to vent!
Can I get an Amen?

I joined last sparrow specifically because I found that this seems to be the only place online discussing this,and in my opinion it is a growing problem.It may be okay for the non-tattooer to be an owner of a shop,but for an artist it can be hell and for so many reasons!I have had many bad experiences working at shops run by non-tattooers,too many to list here.
The main problem is that the tattoo business is a whole different animal.Running other types of business establishments is not the same at all,and nowadays far too many people get a decent size tax return & a book on business and think that they know what they are doing,because they spent a few hours in a tattoo shop.They all spit out catch phrases that they acquire in these books.I had a non-tattooer recently tell me(after putting me through a bunch of unnecessary nonsense) that he worked in the"retail" business before & that the "retail" business can sometimes be rough.I told him that he should take it up with his "wholesaler",but I don't think he was bright enough to understand what I was saying.A lot of these "business" people also don't understand why if you get a detailed description of what the customer wants from them and then when you spend 6 hours drawing it,only to have the customer come in for their appointment and say "yeah,I was talking to my friends and I have decided that instead of that I want this...." why you won't draw them something else after they have wasted 6 hours of your life that you will never get back.I don't think that is hard to understand,but what do I know,I have only been tattooing for two decades.
I have a phrase-"the customer isn't always right,you can only try to do right by your customers".Most non-tattoo artists that run shops don't understand this.If someone comes in with say for instance a horrible maze-looking tribal design that their little brother drew at school on a spiral notebook and I tell them that it isn't really a drawing that translates to a tattoo and that I can draw something that is similar,but better (rather than saying that the drawing is shit and insulting them).Yet still they are insistent that they want it EXACTLY like it is on the paper,the non-artist owner that owns the place will say,"that's what they want,so just do it!"-not understanding that they are trying to force me into doing a bad tattoo,which in turn would give me and their shop a bad reputation.
The non-tattooer also normally doesn't do research before they open a shop,I think they just watch television shows & figure that is how it is supposed to be.So when they are building up the inside of a shop,they say"okay I will have a row of barber chairs over there that 5 or 6 artists can work at (in this small town) ".Not realizing that without dividers of some sort if the customer wants a tattoo in a private place that they will be exposed in front of everyone else in the shop and a small town doesn't have enough business to support 5 or 6 artists.They are worried about having a koi pond,crushed red velvet curtains,leather couches & flat screens,but don't worry about things like a thermographic copier,because the artist can hand trace everything and what do they care if they make the artist work way more than they have to,it isn't making them work any harder.
When a non-tattooer opens a shop they will post something online that normally says "No rock stars!".I have grown to realize that this is code for:leave your individuality and self respect at the door,because really they are looking for rock stars.I am one of the least pretentious artists that there is.I just want to make a living and do great tattoos,which after all these years of denial & error I have finally become very good at my work.I love tattooing,but I am an artist not an entertainer,some people may be both,but I choose not to be a part of that.The non-tattooing owner doesn't seem to understand why I don't want 10 people leaning over me while I'm working,all taking photos & video of me on thier cellphones.They don't understand why I don't work at conventions and have no urge to.They don't understand why I don't care how many people press the like button on their shop's facebook page,or why I don't want to pose for a group photo outside their shop with everyone folding thier arms and acting tougher than they are in their Ed Hardy shirts and with thier fauxhawks.I don't want a biography on your stupid website,let my work speak for itself! Some job postings online say "must have own clientele,you will not be getting walk-ins"-that is just an insult to anyone with any intelligence,especially if your not looking to work near where you live & looking to relocate.What would they be doing for their half of a 50/50 split,providing paper towels?
Most of all I have had problems with non-tattoo artist owners trying to give away my hard work for nothing."Welcome to our tattoo family,now we will take advantage of you like we do our real family" they might as well be saying when they say"we are giving away $200 gift certificates on the radio,because it will be good for business!" .Who's business?-not mine,I don't work for free."we are running a special:as long as you can sit for $250,it will be good for our business!".Yeah,sure,maybe for you-you don't have to depend on this for your living,you have another job as a contractor or a bartender or whatever it is that you do when you are not here most of the time.I appreciate you stopping by for an hour every day and bitching about how tired you are & how hard your primary job is & then telling me something I should do differently.You must know more than me,you have done 5 tattoos in your lifetime & have been in the industry for a staggering 6 months!with expertise like that,you must know what you are talking about!
It feels good to vent!
Can I get an Amen?

Feel better Jolly? Sounds like you've wanted to say that for a while now. You had me thinking about a shop in Augusta. The owner doesn't tattoo, but her son does. He's not very good either. He thinks he's all that and a bag of chips though. The owner completely bombarded the radio and tv with ads and discounts and give aways of all kinds. She did have some great artist working for her until they got fed up and left opening their own shop across the street. She wouldn't hire anyone that wasn't tattooing for less than 10yrs and wouldn't let any new apprentice in unless they had a assoc degree in art. Now that shop is only surviving on the military crowd that doesn't realize that they are over paying by 100%. A tattoo that would cost 100 - 200 anywhere else with better artist they are charging 300-400. Crazy.

I joined last sparrow specifically because I found that this seems to be the only place online discussing this,and in my opinion it is a growing problem.It may be okay for the non-tattooer to be an owner of a shop,but for an artist it can be hell and for so many reasons!I have had many bad experiences working at shops run by non-tattooers,too many to list here.
The main problem is that the tattoo business is a whole different animal.Running other types of business establishments is not the same at all,and nowadays far too many people get a decent size tax return & a book on business and think that they know what they are doing,because they spent a few hours in a tattoo shop.They all spit out catch phrases that they acquire in these books.I had a non-tattooer recently tell me(after putting me through a bunch of unnecessary nonsense) that he worked in the"retail" business before & that the "retail" business can sometimes be rough.I told him that he should take it up with his "wholesaler",but I don't think he was bright enough to understand what I was saying.A lot of these "business" people also don't understand why if you get a detailed description of what the customer wants from them and then when you spend 6 hours drawing it,only to have the customer come in for their appointment and say "yeah,I was talking to my friends and I have decided that instead of that I want this...." why you won't draw them something else after they have wasted 6 hours of your life that you will never get back.I don't think that is hard to understand,but what do I know,I have only been tattooing for two decades.
I have a phrase-"the customer isn't always right,you can only try to do right by your customers".Most non-tattoo artists that run shops don't understand this.If someone comes in with say for instance a horrible maze-looking tribal design that their little brother drew at school on a spiral notebook and I tell them that it isn't really a drawing that translates to a tattoo and that I can draw something that is similar,but better (rather than saying that the drawing is shit and insulting them).Yet still they are insistent that they want it EXACTLY like it is on the paper,the non-artist owner that owns the place will say,"that's what they want,so just do it!"-not understanding that they are trying to force me into doing a bad tattoo,which in turn would give me and their shop a bad reputation.
The non-tattooer also normally doesn't do research before they open a shop,I think they just watch television shows & figure that is how it is supposed to be.So when they are building up the inside of a shop,they say"okay I will have a row of barber chairs over there that 5 or 6 artists can work at (in this small town) ".Not realizing that without dividers of some sort if the customer wants a tattoo in a private place that they will be exposed in front of everyone else in the shop and a small town doesn't have enough business to support 5 or 6 artists.They are worried about having a koi pond,crushed red velvet curtains,leather couches & flat screens,but don't worry about things like a thermographic copier,because the artist can hand trace everything and what do they care if they make the artist work way more than they have to,it isn't making them work any harder.
When a non-tattooer opens a shop they will post something online that normally says "No rock stars!".I have grown to realize that this is code for:leave your individuality and self respect at the door,because really they are looking for rock stars.I am one of the least pretentious artists that there is.I just want to make a living and do great tattoos,which after all these years of denial & error I have finally become very good at my work.I love tattooing,but I am an artist not an entertainer,some people may be both,but I choose not to be a part of that.The non-tattooing owner doesn't seem to understand why I don't want 10 people leaning over me while I'm working,all taking photos & video of me on thier cellphones.They don't understand why I don't work at conventions and have no urge to.They don't understand why I don't care how many people press the like button on their shop's facebook page,or why I don't want to pose for a group photo outside their shop with everyone folding thier arms and acting tougher than they are in their Ed Hardy shirts and with thier fauxhawks.I don't want a biography on your stupid website,let my work speak for itself! Some job postings online say "must have own clientele,you will not be getting walk-ins"-that is just an insult to anyone with any intelligence,especially if your not looking to work near where you live & looking to relocate.What would they be doing for their half of a 50/50 split,providing paper towels?
Most of all I have had problems with non-tattoo artist owners trying to give away my hard work for nothing."Welcome to our tattoo family,now we will take advantage of you like we do our real family" they might as well be saying when they say"we are giving away $200 gift certificates on the radio,because it will be good for business!" .Who's business?-not mine,I don't work for free."we are running a special:as long as you can sit for $250,it will be good for our business!".Yeah,sure,maybe for you-you don't have to depend on this for your living,you have another job as a contractor or a bartender or whatever it is that you do when you are not here most of the time.I appreciate you stopping by for an hour every day and bitching about how tired you are & how hard your primary job is & then telling me something I should do differently.You must know more than me,you have done 5 tattoos in your lifetime & have been in the industry for a staggering 6 months!with expertise like that,you must know what you are talking about!
It feels good to vent!
Can I get an Amen?