Micky Vansittart

Thanks GOODNESS! I'M NORMAL!!!
I have read nearly all the posts in this thread, as I'm currently pondering ideas for a new piece and wanted to feed my own curiosity as to whether i was a good client or not.
Turns out I was!
I researched artists, emailed and consulted with my chosen artist months in advance with lots of visual references, paid a hefty deposit well ahead of time, I arrived on time, was polite, I washed, I brought my own entertainment (iPad, book, music), I kept my mouth shut, I didn't rubberneck, I lay still aside from the odd involuntary twitch (calf/side leg/ankle tattoo - apologised and was assured that it happens in that area) despite being twisted in all manner of awkward positions (necessary), and as a result i got a perfectly detailed and wonderful customised tattoo.
A customised thank-you gift is on order for her as well as my future cash-money-business.
EASY!

... why do I feel that it's the most awkward subject to approach when talking tattoos?
Surely I can't be the only one?
I'm by no means suggesting that tattoos should be cheap, and I'm certainly aware that you pay for what you get. Totally. I'm willing to pay fair-coin for good work. I will never haggle with prices. If I couldn't afford, I'd wait and save until I could.
It's just that the topic of how much a tattoo is going to end up costing seems 'taboo'.
For my first ever tattoo, a walk in with a specific design, I was quoted one price. After the design was printed on that fancy carbon paper stuff, his colleague told him the price should in fact be X amount. After reviewing the stencil again, my artist then added MORE onto the cost. Doubling my very first quote. Already set up, and it being my first time, I went with it feeling held to ransom.
For my other smaller tattoo's, after consultation on design, size, placement I apologetically raised the awkward question of "umm, so how much do you think that will be?" and was met with a vague "well it could be this, could be that. depends on how long... hmm, but then it could well be this". I understand that variables have to be taken into account, but why are we not met with "my hourly rate is XXX, I think it'll probably take around X amount of hours...", so I can get a decent idea of the end cost?
When consulting for my bigger piece, I never broached the subject of price seeing as my first few encounters were telling me this is not a topic you bring up. I was going to be tattooed by a well known artist in a well known shop, and in all honesty I felt a tiny bit embarrassed about bringing it up knowing it would be far more expensive than my previous - Almost feeling like I could be met with "well if you have to ask, you can't afford me".
I put down a £200 deposit and just guessed the excess amount to bring with me on the day - working off the higher hourly rates I'd seen in comments online for London. Luckily I brought enough, but the final cost was whispered into the ear of the receptionist who then told me the final amount to pay.
So forgive me if i've got the etiquette all wrong here. I'm not a frequent flyer. Perhaps it's a bumbling British thing. "sorry how much do y... oh right yes, sorry. vulgar topic... yes... of course yes... i'll just pay all the money... yes, naturally. Silly me."
But I'd be really interested to hear some advice on this.

I'm glad to see a thread about money come up on here, and stay on track with reasonable questions and reasonable answers. We have always avoided the topic, but it is a big part of getting tattooed, and new people come here to educate themselves on all aspects of tattooing. I think we have avoided it for so long because we didn't want it to turn into a big gossip thread about what specific tattooers charge. I personally have never asked ahead of time about the price, but I do think it is a good idea. Especially if you are new to getting tattooed. The ones of us that have been getting tattooed for a decade or more usually have some idea of what we might get charged. Even though we don't talk about it on open public forums we do share this type of information privately. When you are travelling across the country or across the world to get tattooed by someone you have never met before it is a huge help to have friends that have been tattooed by them. They let you know what to expect when you get there. Where to get a good pre-tattoo meal and post-tattoo drink, where the closest ATM is, how fast or slow the tattooer is, and what to expect on the money side. If you don't have friends like that as a resource then you need to talk about the price beforehand no matter how uncomfortable it makes you. I honestly believe that most really good tattooers are very fair with their pricing. That has been my experience over the last twelve years, but I also know that there are a few famous tattooers out there that charge ridiculous prices, and a couple of my friends found out the hard way. It sucks when that happens because it can really sour a person on getting tattooed.

I always ask, "how much should I plan to bring with me?" which makes me sound like I have way more money than I actually do, but I also feel like it doesn't make it sound like I'm concerned with the price.
As a tattooer I try to quote people on their tattoo before they ask to avoid them asking. Currently I over quote people and then when I'm done with the tattoo I charge what I feel is a fair price for the piece (usually less than the quote). I think that it's good to have people prepared to pay more than they actually end up paying, at the worst it makes it seem like you're a nice guy who's hooking them up. In the event that something is really big and/or detailed I'll stick closer to the hourly rate and I tell the client that there's no way to give a real quote on the piece besides "whatever you're comfortable spending that day".
- - - Updated - - -
I got my full side done in under 14 hours by a very renowned artist somehow. I will absolutely agree that artists that charge more are usually much faster (or at the very least, really good).
Sorry for the double post.

... why do I feel that it's the most awkward subject to approach when talking tattoos?
Surely I can't be the only one?
I'm by no means suggesting that tattoos should be cheap, and I'm certainly aware that you pay for what you get. Totally. I'm willing to pay fair-coin for good work. I will never haggle with prices. If I couldn't afford, I'd wait and save until I could.
It's just that the topic of how much a tattoo is going to end up costing seems 'taboo'.
For my first ever tattoo, a walk in with a specific design, I was quoted one price. After the design was printed on that fancy carbon paper stuff, his colleague told him the price should in fact be X amount. After reviewing the stencil again, my artist then added MORE onto the cost. Doubling my very first quote. Already set up, and it being my first time, I went with it feeling held to ransom.
For my other smaller tattoo's, after consultation on design, size, placement I apologetically raised the awkward question of "umm, so how much do you think that will be?" and was met with a vague "well it could be this, could be that. depends on how long... hmm, but then it could well be this". I understand that variables have to be taken into account, but why are we not met with "my hourly rate is XXX, I think it'll probably take around X amount of hours...", so I can get a decent idea of the end cost?
When consulting for my bigger piece, I never broached the subject of price seeing as my first few encounters were telling me this is not a topic you bring up. I was going to be tattooed by a well known artist in a well known shop, and in all honesty I felt a tiny bit embarrassed about bringing it up knowing it would be far more expensive than my previous - Almost feeling like I could be met with "well if you have to ask, you can't afford me".
I put down a £200 deposit and just guessed the excess amount to bring with me on the day - working off the higher hourly rates I'd seen in comments online for London. Luckily I brought enough, but the final cost was whispered into the ear of the receptionist who then told me the final amount to pay.
So forgive me if i've got the etiquette all wrong here. I'm not a frequent flyer. Perhaps it's a bumbling British thing. "sorry how much do y... oh right yes, sorry. vulgar topic... yes... of course yes... i'll just pay all the money... yes, naturally. Silly me."
But I'd be really interested to hear some advice on this.

So far artists have really worked with me when it comes to money. Over ten years ago I paid only 80 Euros for a 4x4 inch tattoo. Now that would cost me more than twice as much.
What I usually do is I print or draw everything I want on a piece of paper and ask before making the appointment. So when my appointment comes around I have the same paper with me and ask if X Eur ist still okay. Last time the artist wanted more but when I said then I will have to do only this many symbols he agreed to do all for what I had saved up.
I can't afford to be shy about prices because I'm just not a wealthy person. I don't buy anything for myself when saving for tattoos.

... why do I feel that it's the most awkward subject to approach when talking tattoos?
Surely I can't be the only one?
I'm by no means suggesting that tattoos should be cheap, and I'm certainly aware that you pay for what you get. Totally. I'm willing to pay fair-coin for good work. I will never haggle with prices. If I couldn't afford, I'd wait and save until I could.
It's just that the topic of how much a tattoo is going to end up costing seems 'taboo'.
For my first ever tattoo, a walk in with a specific design, I was quoted one price. After the design was printed on that fancy carbon paper stuff, his colleague told him the price should in fact be X amount. After reviewing the stencil again, my artist then added MORE onto the cost. Doubling my very first quote. Already set up, and it being my first time, I went with it feeling held to ransom.
For my other smaller tattoo's, after consultation on design, size, placement I apologetically raised the awkward question of "umm, so how much do you think that will be?" and was met with a vague "well it could be this, could be that. depends on how long... hmm, but then it could well be this". I understand that variables have to be taken into account, but why are we not met with "my hourly rate is XXX, I think it'll probably take around X amount of hours...", so I can get a decent idea of the end cost?
When consulting for my bigger piece, I never broached the subject of price seeing as my first few encounters were telling me this is not a topic you bring up. I was going to be tattooed by a well known artist in a well known shop, and in all honesty I felt a tiny bit embarrassed about bringing it up knowing it would be far more expensive than my previous - Almost feeling like I could be met with "well if you have to ask, you can't afford me".
I put down a £200 deposit and just guessed the excess amount to bring with me on the day - working off the higher hourly rates I'd seen in comments online for London. Luckily I brought enough, but the final cost was whispered into the ear of the receptionist who then told me the final amount to pay.
So forgive me if i've got the etiquette all wrong here. I'm not a frequent flyer. Perhaps it's a bumbling British thing. "sorry how much do y... oh right yes, sorry. vulgar topic... yes... of course yes... i'll just pay all the money... yes, naturally. Silly me."
But I'd be really interested to hear some advice on this.

i feel the same way, but I realized I have to just be upfront about it now, because worrying if i took out enough cash at the atm beforehand is just unnecessary stress before a tattoo appointment, fucking with my head game.
I also only get tattooed by artists who are open to talking about every aspect of the tattoo process, including money. I ask them what range to expect for a first session, so I can bring the right amount of cash, (and then some) and they don't seem to mind. I wouldn't ever bug them about giving me a specific price for a session or a piece beforehand though.
I have also been asked for my budget, which again I give them a nice range of what I am comfortable spending at the time, and we go from there.
I do agree that I have been snubbed a few times before about the money thing when I was a bit newer to getting tattooed, artists almost giving me an attitude about asking their hourly rate blah blah, and it sucks. I am sure it comes from the masses trying to haggle prices with them, but I'm not cheap, I have the moolah, just wanna know how much I should carry in my pocket on my way to your shop dammit.... You are trying to come prepared, mentally, physically, and financially, and not being able to do so really gets you down.
Thanks for asking these questions. Stay open and casual about the conversations you have with the artists, make it clear you would just like to be prepared and pay them accordingly, and it really shouldn't be awkward. (even though it always is...haha)

I have had varied experiences myself, similar to @Tornado6. I've had sketches emailed and essentially free consults online, others who won't use email at all except to say "give the shop a call," and once I had a consult, a rough quote and an appointment a month ahead, but a couple of days later got a call to say he had a cancellation that afternoon and if I could get my butt over there for the time slot he'd cut my price by 20%, no matter how long it took! It wound up being a great tattoo at a very reasonable price, so I overtipped, so he'd know I appreciated his work.
This is really no different than any other aspect of getting a tattoo, when you break it down. If you walk in and the place seems iffy, the vibe is off, they misunderstand you or you misunderstand them, you have trouble "connecting," etc., you need to find another shop/artist. If you walk in and you are made to feel awkward about the cost then that might not be the shop for you. When it is right, all of the pieces seem to just fall into place, including how to work out the money issue.
I know of an artist who is of the "if you need to ask, you can't afford me," type. Some artists are just that - purely artists - and consider every tattoo a commissioned piece that has their name on it, and won't do the tattoo if they don't want it in their portfolio, or on the wall of their personal gallery. If they don't like the design themselves they won't do it. Other tattoo artists are willing to do whatever you, the customer, want done. They have a talent and they make a living doing it, and that's all there is to it. There are all types of tattoo artists and you need to find the one that you're comfortable with in every aspect, including how they charge for their work.
Most of us have a specific tattoo budget, so it is absolutely critical that you are not blindsided when it comes time to pay, and you shouldn't apologize for that.

I know it's hard to not think like this especially if you are new to getting tattooed or prone to getting star-struck (me), but you shouldn't! Tattooers are just people with a specialized skill set. We owe our lives to the clients and have no valid reason to think that we are better than you. Don't get tattooed by people who think that you owe them something, can't stress that enough. You will find that the more you get tattooed, the experience is just as important as the art. Get tattooed by people who not only do awesome work, but who are friendly and humble people that you will want to spend however many hours in close proximity with. If you aren't comfortable in your tattooer's presence, you probably shouldn't get tattooed by that person. Hope that helps :)

I don't think it's awkward to ask that at all. Definitely good to just straight up ask the hourly and the amount of time expected, which imo is a bit more graceful than asking for a $ amount. If someone can't answer that for you, they are probably extremely stuck up or shady.
The "if you have to ask then you can't afford me" attitude is bullshit, tattooers need to understand that tattoos are a luxury and there are lots of other expenses in life that take priority to getting tattooed. Also how are you supposed to build a returning clientele if your clients leave feeling like their business wasn't handled with full transparency?

I had my Chad rose morph copied, maybe not line for line, but very substantially, by somebody on here (I'm not going to name names) and it really bummed me out. It wasn't even so much that it was copied--and to be clear here, I'm not talking about the handful of people on here who have gotten rose morphs from Chad or from other tattooers, I'm talking about one specific tattoo--because having tattoos copied is pretty much inevitable in this day and age when so much is available online. What really bummed me out about it is that it was on somebody from here. I don't know the interaction this person had with their tattooer: did they bring in a picture of my tattoo, did they say they wanted that sort of design and the tattooer found a photo of my tattoo? This is the sort of thing that happens all the time and it is what it is, but I guess there are a couple of things that really bother me about it, one being that this forum should be educating people and giving them knowledge so that they aren't doing things like bringing in photos of other tattoos and wanting more or less exact copies of them and that this happened just underlines the fact that a lot of people are here not because they want to learn and get better tattoos, they just want to take from here; that somebody thought it was okay to copy the tattoo of somebody they interacted with. It's not just taking a picture from instagram and handing it to your tattooer. Plenty of you people here have tattoos that I am jealous of because they're so rad and I wish they were on me, but the right thing to do in that case is draw inspiration from that, not straight-up copy it.

I thought this back piece from Horimitsu with red lines is pretty badass looking. I'd imagine it would hold up as well as anything else.
JAPANESE TATTOO Horimitsu: Japanese TATTOO Horimitsu style RED DRAGON

My red lines are almost 10 years old and they've held up perfectly - but I've not got any "olive' in my skin . . .
5 elements - inside Tattoo Picture | Last Sparrow Tattoo

Opening my eyes and world via lots of threads here. Great place!
Have a few small not really noteworthy tattoo's, but have started to up my game a little with a 4.5 hour lace inspired mandala piece on the back of my calf and wrapping around my ankle. Done in February at The Family Business Tattoo Shop in London (amazing place with amazing artists).
Next piece will hopefully be some interlocking/overlapping cluster of mandalas on my upper/outer thigh, which I've enquired about.
So I'm by no means one of the serious collectors, but my interest and enthusiasm is still up there - would love to know what people are looking at getting out of this site or indeed what pieces they're thinking of getting next.
A big lover of decorative tattoo's, personally. Love the look of so many styles (neo traditional especially), just not sure I could pull them off.
*doffs cervical cap*

Here is my submission.
2nd session: