Stewart Robson

Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't Sailor Jerry name himself, with kind of a joke name? Like on the Skull & Sword site, I suppose. His was Horismoku. 'Holy Smoke' in a comedy japanese accent, apparently.

All the Hori* names on the site are funny as hell.

Avery, Jason Saga was a fantastic tattooer. I have the pleasure of seeing some of his work in the flesh. He was a versatile tattooer and capable of many styles but much of his Japanese style work was influenced by the Horitoshi family. A few of my customers have work from him. Again, off topic but Frank Frazetta learned to paint and draw with his 'other' hand after a stroke. He was still totally fucking awesome too. There's a documentary (you can find it on iTunes) that's pretty cool.

True. Or 'professor xxxx'. I think this self-given honorific will make a comeback soon.

I know this is slightly off topic but I thought MsRad's question was interesting and it's not worthy of a brand new thread. I'm not a historian, so I won't attempt to give dates and I don't know how long everyone has been tattooing but knowing where those guys worked makes it clear that they all influenced each other. That makes it all even cooler to me. I didn't work with all these guys so maybe I'll miss some important detail but I know a few of them and the people they worked with. Hooper used to work at IntoYou, when Xed LeHead worked there. Jondix used to visit and do guest spots. So did Mike the Athens and his 'student' Tas. Then, Tas' work had much more Thai/Tibetan and Borneo/Micronesian influence than it does now, so did Hooper's. Tomas Tomas moved from a different shop in London to work at IntoYou. So at one shop, including guests/friends you had: Alex Binnie, Xed, Thomas Hooper, Jondix, Mike the Athens, Tas, Tomas Tomas and Duncan X. There were of course other awesome tattooers working there who specialised in different styles but these 8 people are very influential in the dotwork/blackwork (non-tribal) styles. Hooper and Jondix are close friends and have done series of paintings together and a few collaborative tattoos. I see Mike's and Alex's influence a lot in the work of Jondix, Thomas and Tas' (non Japanese) work. A lot of the dot shading comes from Xed and Tomas Tomas, I think Tomas in particular took it further than anyone, to great success. It's been awesome over the last 8 years or so, watching this amazing work grow out of existing tattoo styles and have other influences slowly added to each person's work and seeing them push themselves and tattooing in general. To me, that's perfect way for new styles to develop, rather than someone deciding that they have invented a 'new thing'. If these guys weren't awesome enough most of them can do great tattoos in many other styles too. I have learned a lot seeing their work, particularly Hoopers healed work in the flesh and nervously tattooing next to it.

Just because people get crappy traditional tattoos doesn't mean that solidly tattooed pseudo graphic 'art' should be tattooed. From looking at the sites you linked to Berit Uhlhorn's work is nothing like Musa's. The only similarity is the acidental looking placement with irregular negative space. Your condescending, lofty tone about tattooing flash and 'artistry' rings hollow without the experience to know that fixing a skin tone simply won't work. While helping the self esteem of post-surgery patients is commendable, it doesn't make it art. There are things that make a tattoo look like a tattoo, regardless of style. Bending those rules is inventive while breaking them is a disservice to the wearers body. It was never my intention to shout you down, I just didn't like genuine innovative tattooing, within the rules that make tattooing work be mentioned alongside pseudo graphic art on skin. Even as an illustrative style, it's dated and most of the innovators of that style within illustrators have moved on. I know this thread is about opinions and Guy's work looks nice but it wouldn't exist without Duncan X and Hooper.

Yeah, I like Thomas Hooper's stuff a lot. I'm usually very impressed with Tomas Tomas too. I was talking about the other stuff that looks like streaks of paint with typewriter font and the occasional anatomical heart. There's a couple of people in eastern Europe doing it, maybe someone in France and some guys and girls in Latin America. I only said something because it was kinda mentioned in the same post as Thomas Hooper. I think Thomas is one of the bravest and most technically skilled tattooers working today and his sense of design and application boggles my mind sometimes. I could go on for hours about why I'm impressed by his work but it would make me feel weird next time I see him.

Holy shit! Curse my human typing fingers and forgetful brain. Any discussion about who needs more recognition should include Mike the Athens. Mike The Athens - Mahashakti His stuff always blows me away.

Personally that scratchy, graphic stuff gets too much attention as it is. I like it less than colour realism. I don't think it belongs in tattooing, a way for an artist to express themselves on somebody else's body. I know the people ask for it and pay for it, but part of a tattooer's job it to stop people getting ugly shit they will want covered when they grow up and see real tattoos done properly. Actually, I apply that to anything that doesn't look like a tattoo. "how clever, it doesn't look like a tattoo" I know this makes me sound like a dick, but I've seen it time and time again. I've even made some of the same mistakes myself, getting bold graphic crap that I thought made me special and clever. It didn't. It just ruined the space for a proper tattoo. I think what Hooper does is capture the same urge to be bold and different but he executes it with an amazing eye for design and respect for the body, not to mention his work is filtered through his knowledge of tattooing as a whole. Horses for courses I guess....

There often aren't any official descriptive terms for decorative tattoo elements. Even if everyone in a certain area or country use the same terms, someone from elsewhere will call it something different. Please don't use words like 'clouding' or 'rose work' etc, nothing says "I spend all time on the internet" like asking for some neo-trad clouding with rose work. Don't try to make up names and descriptions. Just say what you see.

Hahaa. That skit is great. It's kinda the same as gaijin tebori, but not really. It's both fake, but the tattooer side of it is packaging or presentation to mask incompetence. Almost all tattooers have a touch of the showman in one shape or form. Some just pay more attention to showmanship than tattooing. I guess most of us are fakes really. Most of us don't live the lives our tattoos and clothes portray. I do a lot of themes from Japanese folklore, american sailor motifs and black and grey religious tattoos. All those things are naturally alien to me and not part of the culture I was raised in, but I love them all the same and try to respect what they are and do what I can with them. 100% authenticity isn't a goal of mine, but respect is. The caucasian rasta thing is the same as guys aping the look of traditional tattoos while dressing like a coal miner or engine driver with their curly moustaches and tattooing one private customer per day.

While Marisa's books are cool, they are coffee table books, with short interviews regarding a current tattoo scene. If you're looking for historical or traditional stuff they may not be what you are looking for. Large book sellers may have them so you can look through them. The London tattoo convention is in a month or so. There's sure to be a shit load of book sellers there. Unlike Waterstones or large book sellers, most of the vendors won't take too kindly to leisurely browsing customers but you can check out a whole load of books. Keep your eyes peeled. Some books that I thought I'd never see have mysteriously found their way into my hands. Maybe it takes 10 years, maybe longer, but some really cool stuff comes your way if you stay sharp and interested. It's a matter of putting yourself in harm's way, patience, keeping money available and trying not to let opportunities pass you by. This is a side of tattooing/tattoo culture I'd never paid mind to until I realised my reference and history was very limited. I know it's different when it's a hobby instead of a profession but it can be expensive at times but very rewarding. Something that gets very cool with any kind of historical research is the similarities of patterns, themes and motivations regardless of geographical distance.

I have a shaky line drawing of Noddy holder from Slade. I was given the choice of shaky black flag bars or Noddy, for me the choice was obvious. I'm considering a Hendrix or Emperor tattoo.

You hit the nail on the head bigjoe. I call gimmick. I know some people who offer Japanese style tebori and one of them is Japanese and the other learned in Japan from a master. Outside of that structure it doesn't seem to make much sense aside from the points mentioned by David. Basically fake authenticity in place of talent, practice and hard work. Real authenticity is hard to find but many tattoo clients look in the wrong places. I've seen too many white dudes with botched Japanese style work done 'with bamboo' in Thailand. I guess they think if it's done by any guy from Asia it's authentic, right? I'm not sure how popular it is in the US or Canada but at conventions in Europe and the UK there used to be a few (mostly white) guys with facial tattoos working by hand, trying tattoo styles from the islands in the south seas. Even going so far as to sit cross-legged and stretch the skin with their bare feet. Often they were working within spitting distance of a great tattooer who knew more about their field of 'expertise' but he wasn't wearing a sarong and was tattooing snakes, eagles and skulls all weekend, listening to Motorhead.

Ian Flower and Aaron Hewitt are some of the best tattooers in the UK/Europe right now. Ian: New Skool Tattoos Aaron: Aaron Hewitt – CULT CLASSIC TATTOO Nobody ever talks about these guys and I get puzzled looks when I mention their names. I love looking at their work.

I haven't met Ed Hardy. I'd be more nervous about meeting him is because I first read his name when I was in my early teens. Without Hardy, I wouldn't know about Horiyoshi III or any of the other awesome tattooers who's work moved me as a teenager. There are so many tattooers who have influenced me, it was obviously hard to whittle it down to 5. I'm still amazed that all of the tattooers I look up to have been super cool to me. Perez, I like the idea of the list of versatile tattooers too. Mine would be: Ian Flower Mike Wilson Scott Sylvia Filip Leu Henning Jorgensen I think you could ask for pretty much any style of tattooing from those guys and get a fantastic tattoo.

Jaycel, you didn't set up your pitch saying you wanted to conduct a thought experiment/exercise about how an approach to craft can be applied to the way we approach our daily lives, in order to live a more wholesome or fulfilling life. That's a subject dear to my heart and it ties in to alchemy and the concept of the Great Work. But I'll be damned if I'll discuss it on the internet with strangers. That's something for people who come and get tattooed or hang out at the shop, once I know they have the capacity to understand and contribute in a positive way. Although it wasn't you main intention, you set out rules to help assist ignorant and lazy people damage other human's bodies permanently. You didn't attempt to engage in conversation or discussion, your responses were mostly "Oh, you think I'm wrong, well yeah but, CAKE!, 'um yeah here's some jpegs" it's rare that a thought experiment will be encouraged by tattooers. that's for the theoretical world of academe. Tattooing is practical, it really happens, whatever the result of a discussion may be.

Every rule has exceptions. It's difficult to discuss anything if we concentrate on making allowances for the tiny minority of exceptions. When discussing negative things we should be (and most of us are) thankful that there are exceptions, but that doesn't mean we need to make great effort not to hurt feelings. If we're picking apart Dan's use of language, wouldn't someone who is 'immersed in tattooing' be exempt from the title 'layman'? I didn't see where he mentioned being a 'professional', just being 'immersed'. Subtle difference in wording with a massive difference in meaning. I agree with you both, Shawn and Ursula but you just both seemed to read something that I didn't think was there. It's easy to talk about 'us vs them' but often the sides are dictated by quality and attitude, rather than how you earn a living. Those on the 'inside' know where they stand, regardless of their profession. In the 'real' word it's easy to identify them by the way their tattoos look and how they conduct themselves. Online is different, real sincerity is more difficult to detect. Dan's remark about keeping quiet about things we know nothing about is some of the best advice anyone could give. Sometimes, if I'm feeling generous to seemingly honest people asking how to learn to tattoo I tell them to be mindful of the wise old owl. "...the less he spoke, the more he heard..."

I'm gonna cheat, 'cos I can and I feel all rebellious and shit. First list is the 'big picture' influence on my work and who got me interested in what. Ed Hardy Horiyoshi III Scott Sylvia Jack Rudy Filip Leu Second is a personal list of people who have directly affected my tattooing and the way I approach it. Steve Byrne Ian Flower Valerie Vargas Chad Koeplinger Joint fifth between, Dante DiMassa (owner of Frith Street Tattoo) and Tim Hendricks. Looking at these lists reinforces how fortunate I've been up to this point. There's only one person listed who I haven't met. I think he's the one who'd make my palms sweat the most. I still get nervous and excited when I see/have met the others and they let me talk to them. I feel like a child at the table of adults.

pixxillatted, I know that's what colleges and universities teach you to do. Almost everything I learned at university had to be un-learned for tattooing. Although I do still use some of the basic guidelines regarding the structure and pace of a portfolio. From now, I'm sticking with Dan and jinxproof. This particular subject is one where people who know nothing about it, love to talk about it.

I know a fair few tattooers. Some you've heard of, some you haven't. Of the few of them who have actually taken an apprentice, I don't think they did so based on a folio of awesome drawings or paintings. I think they took them on because of their attitude and dedication, sometimes based on the tattoos they have already done. The drawings came later. Much later. It's a common misconception/dream that showing a tattooer your finished drawings will impress them so much that they will teach you to tattoo. It's like the dream a busker has of being 'discovered' playing covers in the subway. Even though I've not been tattooing a long time, I've been shown a hell of a lot of drawings and paintings by hopeful people. Up to now, I've never been impressed. Although I have been impressed with attitude and dedication over a span of time. I still haven't been tattooing long enough to take an apprentice. I don't see that changing any time soon. On a slightly related note, I'm not sure when hopeful apprentices decided that paintings were the way to learn to tattoo. They are the way to impress your hopeful apprentice-level peers and get popular on the internet, but they don't teach you a thing about tattooing in the real world. Maybe it's something non-tattooers on the internet advised them to do. Anyway, nobody even shows us drawings anymore. They don't even come to the shop. They call and ask if we 'do apprenticeships' or they send me a generic email with 'dear sir,...... I'm a fan of your work and the work from your studio...'

You can't. It's as simple as that. No simulation, no dry runs. Just the real deal.

Jaycel, I got the tone of your post and the intention. Although the intention was sincere enough, It's great that you realised, or have started to realise that the principles of most other crafts can seem to be applied but don't translate well to tattooing. Mostly because tattooing is a permanent mark that somebody has to live with and carry with them every day of their life - There is a responsibility that comes with that, although I'm reluctant to discuss it (and other subtleties of tattooing) with non-tattooers as it's easily misunderstood and mis-used by laymen. The reason any discussion of this type is met with hostility from tattooers is firstly because of the responsibility I mentioned and unlike other crafts, tattooing has magnetic attraction for people who wouldn't involve themselves with any other craft-based endeavour. Many of these people are not prepared to undertake the work necessary to create good tattoos. They are only prepared to do the steps they think are necessary to make sick tats. Here's the bit that may get me some shit. Getting an apprenticeship isn't the holy grail. An apprenticeship from a shitty tattooer is worse than no apprenticeship at all. What's that you say? No good tattooers are prepared to teach you? Well there's a reason for that. That doesn't mean you should let an incompetent fool enable you to become a more inexperienced incompetent fool. This is the part non-tattooers ignore when they spout on and on about 'sticking it out and finding an apprenticeship, doing it the right way' It's not right if you are taught wrongly. Many many shitty, inexperienced tattooers have an apprentice. Some of those apprentices have a lofty sense of self-worth and think they are 'real' tattooers because they cleaned the toilet of a shitty tattooer for months. Eventually the work you create and the way you conduct your affairs becomes more important then the way you got there. Mel, I seriously doubt that your dad could make a shitty machine better. Maybe better looking or better constructed, but without knowing how to tattoo, or having a great tattooer teach you. It isn't possible to make a tattoo machine work well. If someone came to me asking for an apprenticeship with pretend tattoos drawn on a mannequin, I wouldn't take them seriously at all. An apprenticeship isn't an art school mixed media project. There are a million smaller things to learn before you get to that point. If any budding tattooers/apprentices read this, the important thing to remember is - Never take advice from someone who isn't a tattooer. Even better, don't take advice from someone who isn't teaching you.

As the saying goes "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" Yeah, we really need a step-by-step guide to 'Teach yourself to tattoo - in 9 easy steps!' While there may be a few crumbs of sound advice in the 9 point program, the fact it's laid out like a 'how to' stinks, sorry. Nobody is self taught. I never had an apprenticeship. I could say that I'm self taught, but that would be egotistical and more importantly, incorrect. I learned and continue to learn from the people I have worked with, the people I currently work with, the tattooers who were gracious enough to allow me to watch them and be present while they worked and the people I've been tattooed by. I could have worked for the rest of my life and never figured out some of the simplest things that were shown to me or that I have seen. Aw, fuck it. Yeah, ok, I learned by tattooing pigs and grapefruit, taking evening classes in human anatomy and drawing still-life compositions with graphite sticks and writing essays on pop art. I watched every Bob Ross VHS tape. I took classes in CPR, blood borne pathogens, midwifery and chiropody. I took apart my shitty tattoo machines and put them back so that they would be even shittier. But most of all I took advice from every non-tattooer who thought they knew how to learn tattooing. (only some of the above paragraph is false, but all of it is sarcastic)

For Sure! I would extend that to everything Scott does, some subjects he does are mind-blowing, some are awesome and the rest are always first-class. Seeing his work healed, in the flesh is always a humbling experience.