Pugilist

America!!!!!!!!!

I think it's also worth noting that the "labour of love" thing is also often used as a cover to underpay/overwork people, i.e. if you are doing it because it makes your soul sing or whatever, then that is reward enough. Loving what you do does not mean you don't deserve to be properly compensated for it! You get a lot of that shit in academia too.

@hogg , you have ok taste in tattoos.

Your next tattoo. :)

I know, right??? When I got tattooed there, I was like, holy hell, how was this a big thing?

Perfectly articulated post. Thank you for sharing!

The weekend of Nov 21-24. I am thinking the Sunday would probably be the easiest for us, but we're open for whatever at the moment! We'll probably be staying in Brooklyn, but we're happy to meet up anywhere a subway can take us.

DUDES. The mister and I will be in NYC next month. Tell me we'll finally get to meet some of you nerds, or at least that we can meet your cats. Paging @Fala @ironchef @gougetheeyes etc.

@semele, that's awesome! I have been so jealous of your litho adventures as I have no access to such glory at the moment. Congratulations!

Things I just remembered: this board has an "ignore user" function! @mmikaoj - again, I am so impressed by your engagement in this discussion despite how prickly it's been. Here's to civil disagreement. Also, I hadn't considered how differing languages might make for tricky discussion. Good point. @CultExciter - he didn't sell you out, your chemistry is just too strong to be ignored!

I didn't know you could get banned for sexting...

Yeah, I agree that all art is subject to criticism, but continuing from what @Graeme said, not everyone is a good critic. Welcome to the trouble with the internet - where everyone who can type is seen as having an equal opinion. I also think it's very important to distinguish between taste (e.g. X tattooer's stuff isn't for me, because I prefer this other style) and critique (e.g. X tattooer has "lost it" and no longer makes solid tattoos). The former is of course something we all can and should do--figure out what appeals to us and why--while the latter is something that requires much more knowledge than just what I find personally appealing. No one is saying we all have to love the same things, but rather that it is dangerous to conflate what we like with what's objectively good, and to think we're assessing tattoos based on the latter when not only is that not the case, but we're all still climbing the steep learning curve of understanding that at all.

Wait, is that YOUR yard? I am so jealous!

Nothing better to do on a sunny Sunday afternoon than hang out in the park with this goof:

I love you guys. I also heard that dry dog/cat kibble is good because it sucks some of the moisture out of the tattoo, thus closing up the wound more quickly. Just make sure you moisturize a bit to compensate for that effect. PS @TrixieFaux , this is where having a tattooed partner is helpful - peer pressure and live vicariously through him! That's what I do, it's like having double the body.

Welcome! I am coming to Madison this week! Tell me cool things to do there! :) I am surprised there wouldn't be better shops in a city its size, but glad you are getting awesome work regardless!

The most important thing is whether or not you love it! But in terms of the quality of the tattoo, it's beautiful. People who are criticizing it are either dumb or have never seen tattoos that look like that before, and think all tattoos are supposed to be tribal dolphins or something. Do not sweat it; it's a great tattoo and a great start.

@mmikaoj - I have to say, for a thread in which people have pretty virulently disagreed with you, you have been such a good sport about engaging in people's criticisms and not taking it personally. Kudos for that; it can be hard on the internet to disagree without things escalating really quickly. That said, I also think it's worth remembering just how public this forum is; this is not just a private conversation the posters in this thread are having amongst themselves. I am careful about posting things about tattooers/that tattooers have said/etc. that, even if I don't mean them negatively, might be construed negatively. This is people's livelihoods! If someone is a scratcher or a terrible human being, that's different, but I am wary of making judgments about tattooers otherwise in what is such a public and permanent medium. That stuff is excellent fuel for LST meet-ups (over drinks, of course) instead. :)

I love those peonies, @HaydenRose ! You must be so thrilled!

Oh I agree, @mtlsam, don't want to diss on clean tattoos! I more wanted to point out that some ways of looking at tattoos privilege that over everything else, which is a shame. Lots of very precise tattooers also make stuff that's powerful and cool and amazing to look at, of course!! Something I wanted to add to my previous rants was that I don't think "looser" tattooing is any less technical. Paying attention to how an image flows and knowing just how much to put into it and how much to leave out is as "technical" as perfect lines, if you ask me. Both take tremendous ability and vision, and they are of course not mutually exclusive.

OMG can we please start that rumour?

What @Iwar said! I think what this is coming down to is a difference in what one is looking for in a tattoo. I am not sure you are 100% getting what I'm trying to say, @mmikaoj . The reason I am bringing instagram into this is because: 1) that tiny format where you are zoomed in on the tattoo and so don't see how it sits on the body, how it looks in natural light, how it moves, how it heals, etc., means that ALL you see is any technical imperfections, which leads to people overvaluing the 'cleanliness' of a tattoo and undervaluing its, well, soul, to keep using that word. The most perfect tattoo is not the most beautiful one. 2) I have been tattooed by several people who tattoo in a "looser" style. This is definitely a matter of taste. What I LOVE about that style is how natural it looks on the skin, like it's always been there, like I was born with it. It feels powerful because of how it moves, how dynamic it is, etc. Social media CANNOT CAPTURE THAT. So all we talk about is shit that's "clean". Whatever. There is a reason why some really technically proficient tattooers choose to loosen up their styles, and that's because of how the tattoos will sit, move, age, etc., on the actual person, not on instagram. That was my point about how we judge people. I am lucky enough to know a tattooer that got a beautiful Horiyoshi III tattoo in the past 2-3 years. When I look at her arm, I do not see any squiggly lines or jacked up shading. His work is so powerful, I just see this amazing tattoo that looks like it was meant to be on her skin. It's bold, elegant and stunning. You don't get the whole story when you look at instagram, and I sure as fuck don't get tattoos so that people can analyze their technical merits on social media.

Yeah, I think the thing some people need to remember is that these days most people seem to get their tattoo info from a format which involves looking at teeny tiny digital pictures, out of context, unhealed, etc. Instagram is basically bullshit for seeing the quality of people's work. If you've ever been lucky enough to see a Horiyoshi III tattoo in person, you would realize how seriously wrong you are. (This is kind of a digression, but what I hate about Instagram is that it ends up prioritizing tattoos that photograph well over tattoos that have soul. I'm going to go like, rearrange my crystals now.)

I've been tattooed by some super "famous" tattooers and by some people no one's ever heard of. I am very, very wary of a sort of "starfucker' mentality in tattooing. There are so many amazing people that aren't as well known as they should be because maybe their style isn't trendy, or they're not on social media, or they just don't prioritize instagram like others do, or they don't travel to conventions as much, etc. People who are well known only gets you so much. And that one tattooer is more well known than another is not necessarily because they are "better". There is a lot of noise in this subculture, and I am very careful to pay attention to what really turns me on, so to speak, about a tattooer's work, and not get swept up in their name, hype, trendiness, whatever. I had a really good chat about this with a fairly "famous" tattooer recently, who said that while they get a lot of "collector" types coming to them, they can immediately tell the difference between someone seeking them out because they are really psyched on their work, and someone who is more interested in their name and adding it to their list. Apparently there is a pretty big difference in the experience of tattooing these different kinds of people. It was a nice conversation in that I sometimes feel self-conscious when people ask me who my stuff is by, or who I am planning to get tattooed by in the future, and this person was basically like: don't worry. If you are genuine in your enthusiasm, people can tell. If you're a douche and just want to cover yourself in big names, people will know the difference. Our true intentions show through, and it's important to me to connect with a tattooer's work in a very primal way. Basically, to this person, there is an upside and a downside to having a "big name". All of which to say that I think there is an important difference between recognizing, talking about and respecting the work of people who are doing awesome, creative and inspiring things, and getting wrapped up in names and tattoo celebrity. The former is what makes this community so great, but I think the latter is basically poison to any sense of creativity and authenticity. And the line between them can be thin. I also agree with others that the experience of getting a tattoo, or if I can put it in hippie terms, the vibes that go into it, is super important. At this point I am unlikely to get tattooed by someone that I haven't heard about through someone else as being awesome. Instagram photos are not enough.

Definitely talk to your tattooer about this; when you go and consult for a tattoo on your back, tell them you'd like to keep the option of a backpiece in the future open, and LISTEN to their advice if they say what you want is or is not doable with that consideration. Backs are different from other body parts. A pieced together sleeve looks kind of cool, whereas a back is such a huge expanse of space that a pieced together back is kind of a mess. I had two tattoos on my back when I started my backpiece. I was on my way to piecing things together when my tattooer flat out told me that if I kept adding smaller tattoos to my back, it would eventually looks insane, and I was much better off thinking about a larger, more coherent piece. I am SO GLAD I listened to her. Working around the existing pieces we had already was tough and involved a lot of compromise on the design. I am thrilled with it and wouldn't have it any other way, because they're my tattoos, and I love them and I don't really care about the design challenge of the whole thing. But while I know my tattooer was happy with how things turned out, she did see it as a backpiece full of compromises due to the space limitations, and would have been even happier with nothing to work around. So all of that to say: yes, you can get a very cool backpiece with tattoos already on there (if you're careful), although that will limit your options a lot. But no, you probably can't just get a backpiece through adding a piece here and there. Unless of course, your tattooer and you have discussed this and are putting together something intentionally coherent piece by piece, like what @Fala mentioned.