David Flores

I made this post in another tattoo forum. It applies here.
"Im not saying facebook posts are going to make any difference to TLC. Im saying our voices are important for the regular public to hear also. Just because you may not have heard of the show doesn't mean all the "middle america, sit on the TV all day" kind of people haven't. I want regular non tattoo people to understand how we feel about this and why. I would like to counter the immediate response to thinking that a tattoo school is a good idea. I want the people who might watch this show and decide they want to go to a tattoo school. The kids who get turned away from apprenticeships and see this as a backdoor into the craft. I want them to hear why that's a bad idea. From the people who they would be looking at for employment.
I am under no illusions that a bunch of posts on the net are going to change a networks mind necessarily. More that I want as many people as possible to understand that this isn't the norm in tattooing, nor the way to go for anyone."
I feel we need counter measures.

I was 20 when I walked into Temple Tattoo in Oakland. It was recommended to me by a friend who had some great tattoos by Chris Conn that were done at Temple. I remember first stopping by the marijuana dispensary across the street to pick up my daily smoke bag (I was a heavy smoker) and smoked some in front of the shop. I had no intention of getting tattooed anytime soon, and especially not that day. Suddenly, when the smoke hit me, I became very inspired and excited, almost antsy and anxious (in a good way). I walked into the shop and heard some heavy doom metal, I believe it was Electric Wizard, though it may have been Sleep. I smiled, and became a little more inspired. I then began looking at the flash on the walls and saw Jason McAfee's flash. I have never seen this sort of flash before, it was colorful and evil at the same time. At that moment Jason I guess saw me checking at this flash exclusively and approached me and asked if I wanted any help. Not knowing he was Jason, I asked to speak with Jason, ha. He introduced himself and asked me what I was thinking about getting. And without any previous thought about what I wanted, from the depths of my unconscious mind I said "A Viking Ship". He then said "Where do you want to put it?" And again with out any previous thought I pulled up my jean leg and showed him the whole left side of my left leg. He then asked "When do you want to do this?" I said whenever you can, thinking maybe next month or possibly next week. He then asked if I wanted to do it today. I was so thrill of thought of leaving with a Viking ship on my leg that day, I jumped on the opportunity. He told me to come back in about a half hour, so I went to smoke some more. When I got back he had the coolest Drakkar drawn up with crashing Japanese style water. I smiled and said lets do it! The whole experience was great. Jason is very personable and "too cool" towards me at all, even though I was a 20 year old kid who looked about 16. We talked about doom metal, and he told me some stories about his doomy trip to London and meeting some doom legends. He even showed me some pictures. Great experience, and I felt very appreciated and respected. Because I liked the guy so much I went back to get a few more from him. And the rest is history.

OK here's the thing Bubbleberry. You aren't a tattooer. Not that your opinion isn't valid, but try to understand things from this perspective:
Among craftsmen, information is the true currency. It's why master woodworkers, calligraphers, metal smiths, violin makers etc. guarded their secrets. It's keeps the things that you do special. When everyone knows everything, what is special? Thats why the Stradivarius violin is what it is and not just some normal violin.
When I was in my apprenticeship my teachers told me things. Very valuable things that helped me in my journey. Things I still think about today. One had been tattooing 14 years and the other 9. They had accumulated a lot of experience. They made mistakes, figured some things out, talked and worked with other tattooers, and had a chance to see a lot of things they did age and make adjustments to compensate. When they taught me stuff, they put their faith in me that I wouldn't just treat the things they passed on as just stuff to talk about or things to say when you want other dudes to know that you know what you're talking about. It was truly valuable and needed to be seen and treated as such.
I had very good friends working at other shops in town on their own similar beginning adventures in tattooing, and I never told them any of the shit my bosses told me even if I thought it would help. Which was hard, but here's the thing. It wasn't my secrets to tell. As much as I would like to help someone out that I think might benefit from a hint or two, it's not my information to tell. I couldn't betray that. It's what keeps it valuable and helps keep that bond between student and teacher sacred. I truly believe that. That's maybe why so many of us are up in arms about the tattoo school thing. Because we may have gone through the student/teacher apprenticeships, and value that. I'm proud of my lineage. They aren't huge name dudes or anything, but I think that are some of the best tattooers I know. My stuff has a look to it that you can trace back to the people I worked with and learned from and that's important. It keeps things rich. It's the best way to cultivate and nurture tattooing as a whole. My stuff may not be the best stuff out there, but it's mine, and what's mine is a combination of the people who taught me, and I'm proud of that.
Think about your wife. She's going through her very own apprenticeship. What about the accumulated knowledge that her teacher is passing on to her. Should she not hold that in truly high regard? Shouldn't she keep his secrets and put them to good use? She is now part of his lineage. That's not something to take lightly. That information is valuable and she should treat is as such.
That's not to say that you can't ever mention it. Trading bits of information between craftsmen is another way to honor the value of the knowledge, AND that gives me the privilege of being able to go back to my teachers and tell them what i've learned as a part of the way you can pay them back for giving you so much in the first place.
As craftsmen we meet up at conventions, guest spots, shop visits on vacations, writing to each other, and we can sometimes trade portions of information to each other and we can in turn use these in our own ways and it helps keep tattooing robust and alive. It helps us form bonds between each other. However even in those situations I try to hold back certain aspects of the info, as do the people on the other side. It keeps the level of mystery, not in a mystical sense, but in the sense that we now have to figure out the key to unlock this particular piece of knowledge, and sometimes we find our own key and use for it.
Tattooing is different than most things in that it's still a largely master/apprentice craft. True a lot of tattooers came in through different means but most of them respect the apprenticeship as the proper way, and although more tattooers than not shouldn't actually be giving apprenticeships since they aren't really cut out for it, and we have too many to begin with already, it's still the proper way. That is part of the tradition that, at least I hold in very high regard.
Ursula, if you're paying for info, that you've in turn used to help you create something unique, then yes you should see it in that light. Hold it back. People ask and ask, but that shows you just how valuable and special your stuff is. Let them find their own secrets. Now if you are meeting up with other people and can trade parts of things for more info, then good on you.
I could write more on this subject but I think I need food right now. I'm sure smarter people than me can expound in a better way.

I would never get tattooed by some1 with less tattoos than me...I only have full sleeves and legs done..you should earn that right by doing your "time" and getting tattooed before becoming a tattoo artist

Got this a few weeks ago in Chicago from Nick Colella.

Got this a few weeks ago in Chicago from Nick Colella.

Got this a few weeks ago in Chicago from Nick Colella.

Thanks, that's my current FB status.

"TLC hates tattoos."

I'm assuming this is your same wife who you posted about apprenticing in another thread.
You'd think her parents would be more bothered about her career change than getting some tattoos on her legs.
And I mean really- what's the worst they're going to do? Give you the cold shoulder because she got a tattoo? Fuck em.

Got this a few weeks ago in Chicago from Nick Colella.

I thought I did answer the original question.
Almost every thread you've started here didn't need to be posted. 5 minutes of thought would have answered your own question.
There's an 'old' saying regarding people who constantly make 'controversial' threads and posts on internet forums. "Do not feed the trolls"
Do you realise that one of the founders of this site makes some of the best tattoo machines available?
Do you realise that many forum members and interviewees also make the highest quality machines and other equipment?
It's not about you making money, nobody cares. It's about respect and acting professional while asking professionals (and serious enthusiasts) for advice.
People come here to discuss topics in an informative and hopefully positive way. It's hard to do that when people ask if a dvd is a good place to learn anything to do with tattooing.
Here's an honest tip: There is NO Bob Ross of tattooing. It's also not like Popular Mechanics or Model Engineering where everybody shares their tips and advice to everyone. You can complain all you like about people being smart asses or dicks, but we've all been in the same position. Really, we have. We found our own way, often with help, but we had to earn that help, usually face-to-face. The journey and the self-discovery is what makes the outcome more valuable.
I didn't always tattoo in a shop but I found that pretty much anything I could buy from someone who didn't care where I worked wasn't worth buying.
I've said too much. I'm going back to not feeding trolls...

Got this a few weeks ago in Chicago from Nick Colella.

Got this a few weeks ago in Chicago from Nick Colella.

Chris Smith, Deluxe Tattoo in Chicago. The ship itself was done last year, just finished the background and flowers this time around ... Last Thursday.

Hope the photo is attached...

Oh, I forgot to ostentatiously name-drop Fred Corbin among the pantheon of big-name tattooers that I'm cool enough to have tattoos from. I probably neglected him in this discussion as, in my experience, he was as far from disrespectful as you can get. Dude was fucking cool to me the first time I ever travelled out to the Bay to get tattooed in 2002. I greatly appreciated it.
Oh, and one other note: With all due respect, I'd argue that the relationship of collector to tattooer, and vice-versa, is not analogous to that of bartender or sales clerk to customer. I don't spend three hours naked with the gas station attendant as they grope and permanently alter the appearance of my ass. I do with Tim Lehi. No wonder tattooers hate people. I would hate all that intimacy with people, and this is coming from a personable guy who can muster a semblance of social skills, at times. I can see how being "nice" to people all the time and babysitting them through what some perceive as some mystical rite of passage would get old, fast. So I sympathize with tattooers' plight. At the same time, I'm not exactly a fucking imbecile, and I've done my homework. It was cool of Dick Stell to say to me last month "You'd be a great shop owner or manager. You know more about tattooing than some tattooers." I'm the first to acknowledge that I don't know shit about tattooing, drawing, or painting, technically. However, if I haven't developed at least a mediocre eye for the aesthetic over 15 years of study, I'm retarded. Problem is, everything becomes a fucking insecure little boys' pissing contest. I really don't give a fuck, I just want to learn shit. If I have any insight to offer anyone who's sincerely interested in this bullshit (and not ascending the social hierarchy of "cool"), great. There are shit tons of tattooers who know more about this crap than I ever will, and if they're willing to part with some of their knowledge, I'm grateful. It seems pretty simple. I swore a lot in that paragraph.
Tattooing is rock-star shit, ego-trip-wise. Difference is, you don't interact with rock stars. The reason why so many tattooers are so disrespectful is because they can get away with it. I had issues with a few of the tattooers I encountered right from the get-go, when I first started getting tattooed. Why? Well, I'm an adult, and I demand some modicum of respect . . . And I happen to get along with almost everyone I meet. If you have a problem with me, it's your problem. I'm far from perfect, but I treat others respectfully. I see right through these idiots' weak facade. It's boring and pathetic. Not everyone's as dumb as they think they are. If this particular breed of person who makes a living as a tattooer wants to see an imbecile, find a fucking mirror. Can I get a witness??

Thats like me and The Royal Tenenbaums. Every time I watch it, I catch a little bit more. And the life aquatic. There is an Easter Egg in the special features where its just Bill Murray trying different excercises with his Zissou Adidas. All he says is "WOW! These are great"

I will have to try it. It sounds awesome.

Still not completely healed, but here are those English roses that Stuart Cripwell put on me last week (photo taken just after he put 'em on): English Roses by Stuart Cripwell, Spider Murphy's - Tattoo Gallery

We eventually didn't do it because we could have fucked up and gotten picked. Then I'd have to get tattooed by Kat Von D.

I will have to try it. It sounds awesome.

JoKno
I may be wrong but your post sounds like you feel somewhat entitled.
---- best shop wants two years of art training
While art school is not a necessity, a lack of ability can often be seen in a portfolio.
Do you think this is an unreasonable request?
----next best shops wanted $5000 and 2 years of unpaid training time
Do you think they should just teach you at their expense and supply you with equipment free of cost and then allow you to practice on their customers -- doing substandard work while profiting from it as well?
-----the cheapest wanted $2000 paid in advance
Should they teach you, a stranger, I'm assuming- without any commitment ---- Really? $2000-- how much was your EMT training.
-----next shop said they don't hire apprentices because they just steal everything
You don't think that your walking in to a shop and expecting them to teach you at no expense to you coming and going as you please because of your limited time doing shitty tattoos on their customers amounts to anything but stealing?
-----next, the drunk asleep on the floor
Maybe he was pretending so you would go away?
-----next, flea market guy
You shouldn't be getting any money,YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO TATTOO! Perhaps you expect him to pay for all of your supplies , teach you at no cost - tomorrow- and then give up 1/2 of that 6x9 space that you scoff at?
And last but not least --- the people of the great state of South Carolina have been getting tattooed for years --- do you know how? They drive. They cross county lines.
Perhaps you should go to a university and then law school - ask them if you could attend it for free---- provide legal services while attending and keep all the money you get paid. They can supply your text book,briefs, research material, maybe even a new laptop --- also at no expense to you ---- so that you can get your law degree and rewrite the ordinance in Aiken County!
Sound reasonable? Really?

David,
I'd probably make you nuts, I intentionally overuse awesome all day long. It's actually intentional, it's like a personal joke between me and myself, I do know that it drives some people crazy. It's almost like how some people judged and discounted me 25 yrs ago when I got my nose pierced, I know that some people make a judgement about me for saying "that's totally awesome" all day long. Got to keep the haters away somehow. I also like to say hecka. You should try it, just for one day, you might find that you also enjoy the awesome lifestyle.

this isnt a slang term but i thought it was funny when a guy came in and "hey !, How much for sleeves?!...........FREESTYLE!!