William Burgess

I always thought the panther/tiger/leopard head gettin' stabbed was a symbolic reference to mans intellect(the dagger) cutting through his more base, animal instincts. Intellect vs. instinct is what I have always thought.

Good one while tattooing a girl's arm today, from one of her friends. "I mean, I know you have to have a steady hand, but tattooing doesn't look that hard."

Told him it was the hardest thing I've ever done, with each day being both easier and harder than the day before, a really quick list of about twenty things you have to think about the whole time, and ended it after 10 seconds of awkward silence with "If tattooing were easy, there wouldn't be so many bad tattoos out there," followed by a laugh to make it obvious I wasn't mad at him or anything. He just didn't know.

Still... wow.

Heh heh...maybe you gotta take that one as a compliment? You know what they say, if someone is really good at what they do, they make the very difficult look effortless! If that guy saw me tattooing, he would probably be saying "that looks really hard!" Wish I could be one of those "cool as a cucumber while doing an extremely challenging piece" guys but the effort and concentration required is very apparent when watching me work!

Well originally I was going to post one of my own experiences after seeing the thread title but was side tracked by the discussion. Anyway...

Some background info...I have a fairly large amount of coverage...probably more than 50%. I am not the most toughest client but I have been told by most that I sit pretty well...even if I want to take hourly breaks and all which may be annoying to some.

So I am getting a tattoo from Shotsie at T&B 2013 in Santa Rosa...this was like a dream come true because I admired his stuff from my very beginnings, in the late 80s. So I guess I am kinda frazzled by my recent long flight and am kinda hyper. Wanted several cig breaks in the course of the 3 hour piece. He reminded I was paying by the hour but I was cool with that...nicotine addiction is a bitch! I guess I wasn't too comfy sitting in the chair(I prefer lying for any body part if possible) and was moving around too much...he never said anything, but maybe I could of been more aware. But you know...tattoos kinda hurt lol.

So at the end of it, I am feeling very good, that "I made it and here is my reward' feeling you get when I particular piece is finished...as he is wrapping it up he says with a surly tone..."I sure hope your customers sit better than you...I had to wrestle you the whole time"...which I felt was bullshit because I don't move while the needle is in my skin...maybe I shifted too much when he dipped I guess. It was an instant buzzkill...even the extra $100 I had set aside for tippage was no consolation. Its a beautiful tattoo but every time I look at it I can't help but think how much the situation soured my experience.

Are you blaming her for his rude comment?

Just saying everything is not black and white like that...like I said I am guilty of saying things that I later heard were offensive to a client and it bothered me because I was clueless about it...because the types of comments I make do not offend most...pretty tame I think...but perhaps I could be more sensitive about stuff like that.

btw I do agree with the OP now that she has clarified...does seem a bit creepy.

Ummmmm.....sounds pretty normal to me!

Not saying it is appropriate or saying it is right......but hearing this doesn't shock me in the least!

This is why as a tattooer you have to watch what you say...case by case basis I guess. I have been guilty of making off handed remarks like that. 99% percent of the time people laugh...are you sure the comment was not taken out of context? The guy I am getting my back worked on from has a busy shop and dirty jokes from him and other artists/clients seem to be pretty standard.

The artist probably didn't think this was a big deal and worse yet has no idea this was so upsetting to you...because you didn't speak up.

One of the old timers who mentored me in this biz said something to the effect of "sometimes a customer is gonna be difficult but they themselves don't realize it" meaning you gotta turn them away when they do certain things even if the customer is not recognizing their own behavior.

TOTALLY flipped out on a customer tonight...got talked down in price quite a bit but still decided to go the extra mile. Drawing kept me up LATE the night before...one of those "double the work but really want to do it" kinda pieces. So its taking a while, as I had planned because I was putting a lot into it. He can't hang because its getting too tender...says can we finish one part and do the rest later. I say cool, we will be at the 3/4 mark then so how about 1/4 your money back and pay when we finish...he looks all disappointed...so I asked is that fair..."We'll it could have been easily cheaper". I actually refunded his money, bandaged his half completed tattoo and told him walk.

Every time this has happened, I realize there was some truth to what my mentor said and have compiled a list of red flags. In all cases it would have been easier to just to turn them down as a customer and deal with someone else who won't give me such a hard time.

-Price haggling...especially the "that's a rip-off" type response.

-Looking like they aren't trusting you to do a good job..."your'e gonna do a good job, right?" and such

-Complaining about other artists work that is competently done. "he messed it all up"

Any other things come to mind? Tattooers please respond.

@ironchef That looks great! Also, are you a member of an awesome gym who owns a lot of flash, or does the tattoo shop randomly have a lifting platform?

Haha...that's my shop, Tattoo Technique in Bremerton Washington...all my other tattooer friends think I am crazy...really love the Olympic lifts and try to practice during slow times.

Sessions 1-5 by Aaron Bell...16.5 hours on the clock so far.

- - - Updated - - -

Second session yesterday. Was a lot easier this time around, not so apprehensive I guess and also made a point to just focus on my breathing for the few lines that needed finishing. Looking forward to the next session! Thanks again Stewart.

Killer Don Nolan design! I remember getting this design sheet when I was just starting to assemble some equipment from spaulding rogers back in '90...anyone know what year it was drawn?

Got my full back piece started by Aaron Bell today...I do have large rib shots as well as stomach done so I had some idea of what to expect. Most was pretty tolerable, except for the edges of the back where it wraps into the ribs...but he saved the worst for last...a wee bit near the base of the spine sucked and he started to go a little on the butt cheek, just the very top. That hurt! Makes me wonder how I am going to make it as its a shoulders to knee ditch composition.

I have been tattooed by a rotary machine and i guess at times it was less painful than a coil, but not rainbows and unicorns better, and after two hours it sucked just as bad. Tattoos hurt

Didn't notice any difference painwise...the noisiness of the coil machine gives a warning of the impending pain though...with rotaries its like..."Surprise!!" :(

...when I say tiny I mean it, 192 sf. its set up nicely though, like a pretty spiffed up tattooer cubicle plus small waiting area. I really don't want to give up my spot to do legal tattooing when I go home, so I left it set up. pretty much everything but machines. I left my stencil machine, desktop, printer, bunch of disposable setups, ink and medical accessories. A split of the common operating costs is also an option I would consider.

This shop is in the sleepy town of Kamuela, HI. Its slow, but perhaps someone who is a more skilled and accomplished tattooer than myself could make it work. Message me if you want to talk details.

I wish all the bastards scratching up my 14-16 year old students asked themselves this question. I know it's a totally different issue than you raise here, but I'm so glad your ethics are in the right place.

Similar in the sense that they too are not legally competent to enter into a contract. This is my reasoning for rejecting the "with parents permission" tattooing, which is legal in HI.

...can they consent to a tattoo? I am of the opinion that they can't.

Someone came into my shop today and I felt ethically compelled to turn this person away. She was higher functioning in the sense that her intelligence level was high enough to say, have a job doing janitorial work with supervision. Her demeanor had me guessing she had the intelligence of an 8-10 year old. She knew what kind of design she wanted and where, but that was about it. The kicker was when she said..."I have permission"...and then pointed to her guardian who she had in tow. Not to hurt her feelings, I pulled the other person she was with to the side and explained that I cannot tattoo anyone who is not legally competent to enter into a contract( the release form).

Just wondering how others felt about this. In all honesty, there are some people who get work who are not playing with a full deck...earlier this week I tattooed someone who kept going on about how some unknown entity injected a tracking chip into his bloodstream and how his enemies are using satellites to track him and control his thoughts, even saying how he went into a hospital with a loaded gun because they fucked with his mind somehow. I just made sure any potential deadly weapons were out of reach and finished up. Maybe crazy is different though.

Any recommendations?

...that is I believe a grim reaper in the act of "reaping" with the slogan "you can't kill death"....saw this in his book years ago...one of the most powerful pieces of tattoo imagery I have seen. Just was thinking about it again and wondered if anyone knew.

For goodness sake...across the shoulder/stomach rockers including last names do NOT in anyway even approach the lameness paragraphs of text. If they are well done they can be bad ass. I will always be down to do one of those. I like tattoos that look like tattoos and they fit the bill. Classic as fuck. Maybe I am biased having worked at both white trash and ghetto ass shops...popular them for all especially in the 90's!

Looking forward to the start of my first 4 hour session to get my shoulders to knee ditch backpiece by Aaron Bell in October. Booked another 14 more but may require less. I'll see how it goes.

If you have more tattoo machines than clients, that is too much.

Guy who tried to be a tattooer I know, worked one day a week had to bring his own clientele, always had a new machine to show off, never had anyone to tattoo.

Number of clients ever? Could never own that many. If this means people I definitely know will get tattooed by me in the future...maybe I do own too many heh heh. It will be worse when I start fabricating some. Finally getting the help I need from some experienced builders as well as the necessary tools.

And William, it's the art being questioned not the tattooing itself. 9 times out of ten the ripped tattoo is poorly applied or even scratcher bad which is part of the reason I'm past caring ha.

Its all about execution for me...I would rather see a well done copy than a poorly done "100% all original custom art".

To much of the tattoo is in the execution. No two renderings, no matter how exactly copied will ever look totally the same. This is not like photocopying someones artwork and printing it for sale or selling bootleg CD's of someones music. Each tattoo is still individually applied by hand, millimeter by millimeter.

I saw someone who had something like this done...the skin bubbled up like cottage cheese, then scabbed and hardened, it was truly disgusting. Picture for proof!

A youtube vid I saw had the finished result looking a lot like the above...never saw the healed result though. It does look pretty nasty. Then again, so does fresh lasering.

Please explain what this stuff is. I never heard of it

Its a liquid that is tattooed in the skin like regular is and is supposed to bind to the tattoo pigment which then solidifies. The particles then come out through the skin. Seem promising because A) its not some cream applied topically(that's too good to be true from results I hear of), B) It's not color specific according to the pitch, C) Can be applied by any tattooist, with no additional equipment necessary, and D) The particles come out of your body vs. driven in to be collected up by the lymph nodes as in laser removal.

Seems pretty promising at least according to the ads...does anyone have any experience with this product?

Normally I like to use quotes so its clear what I am talking about...but there are so many gems in this thread and I don't know how to save drafts:(

Being highly skilled in another medium seems to be a rare quality of a prospective apprentice. I have worked at three shops now and have seen many people come in and inquire about apprenticeships. Only one person, and I repeat one person only came in with a nice, presentable portfolio filled with well drawn and colored tattooable designs. The amount he had was not even that much...like less than half of a full(10 sheets 11x14) set. I was still very impressed.

I someone were to come in and show me a full set of flash, completed and comparable in quality to the better stuff out there, I might be compelled to teach that person. It may never happen! 99.9% have some pretty poorly organized amatuerish drawing if that. Its like art was just an afterthought or something. Then of course some fuck up their chances by showing some of the scratches they inflicted on friends and family.

This seems to be a pet peeve amongst many tattooers...god damned cherry creek. I don't get it. Not terribly interested in the style myself, but I think they are well designed drawings. Is it the fact that there are sooooo many poor renderings of the stuff? In the nineties that was the selling ploy of many substandard tattooers...wallpaper the place with cherry creek and hope the customers don't notice how shitty they came out. On the other hand, a well applied tattoo that looks just as clean and solid as the picture...is this really a bad thing?