Ursula

I'm gonna start this off by saying I am NOT a tattooer.
What I have learned from being around the tattoo community for a while now is that it's more about the quality of work than being a tattooer or as you call it an outsider. (I don't consider myself an outsider because I have just as many tattoos, know all the same people and have worked in shops)
If your art holds up to the test, it doesn't matter where you came from or who you are. I have had zero problem selling my hand embroidered flash and sewn items to tattooers and outsiders alike (after working on my craft for over 10 years)
If you love art do it. And if stay with what you love in the end it doesn't matter.
The one last thing I'd like to add is this: if you make money off the tattoo industry in any way you better damn well put some of that money back into it by getting tattoos, or buying other people's art.

I used to care when someone on the internet would rag on me about my art; now I spend more time creating art, less time caring about what people think. If you're going to do it though, do it right and ask someone who knows how like a real-life tattooer in person, preferably while you're getting tattooed. Buy vintage flash books, study and TRACE the images until the style becomes your own, do some research and find the image sources, credit the creators, and draw/paint all the time. Everybody borrows from each other in every field - this documentary is a great summary of that "Everything is a Remix" Most of all, don't apologize for doing something you love; anyone who tries to make you feel bad for that should check themselves and figure out why they feel the need to worry about what someone on the internet is doing. My .02

I'm gonna start this off by saying I am NOT a tattooer.
What I have learned from being around the tattoo community for a while now is that it's more about the quality of work than being a tattooer or as you call it an outsider. (I don't consider myself an outsider because I have just as many tattoos, know all the same people and have worked in shops)
If your art holds up to the test, it doesn't matter where you came from or who you are. I have had zero problem selling my hand embroidered flash and sewn items to tattooers and outsiders alike (after working on my craft for over 10 years)
If you love art do it. And if stay with what you love in the end it doesn't matter.
The one last thing I'd like to add is this: if you make money off the tattoo industry in any way you better damn well put some of that money back into it by getting tattoos, or buying other people's art.

i just wanted to clear up why i said (gouge quoted me) the word "outsider". by outsider, i don't mean someone who has no knowledge of the industry, history, or artists involved in tattooing and is therefore not tattooed themselves. what i meant by the word "outsider" is that i am just a customer, not a tattooer (or tattooist, if you prefer). i'll never know what it's like to be a tattoo artist, and i'll never fully understand all the obstacles and problems currently faced by those who work in this industry. i can sympathize, and empathize, but i'm not living it. i'm not experiencing it first hand when it comes to producing tattoos.
also, the flash i draw is stuff i create, not stuff based on other people's designs (or at least not consciously or intentionally). i started a series based on Lucero lyrics, and i've also started working on a portrait series of people i admire (the first drawing being intentionally for Mike Park, though he doesn't know it yet and i won't get to finish it this week as i had hoped) which do have some elements related to tattooing (banners, script, etc.), but there's no way i'd post that stuff on here, and especially not after seeing the reaction Smiling.Politely received.
what makes me mad is that people are reacting without knowing all the facts about someone and their intentions. i know and understand that people feel that their jobs are threatened right now due to a surge in shitty tattoo artists. but putting down people who clearly have some talent and drive is not going to change this, and if anything, i think is backfiring. i know people who just said "fuck it" and have started tattooing out of their homes because of this attitude. a few blocks away, there is a house where several people are doing this nightly. is this what we want to happen? personally, i want to still be able to get tattooed when i'm 65 or 70 years old, and i want to have the same quality of work done as i do now. and that's not going to happen if we just discourage everyone without knowing their intention for wanting to tattoo.
also, as Ursula pointed out, there are many good artists who went to art school and now tattoo. Hell, Mario works with Josh Howard at CTC who went to SAIC and who i know produces stellar work. going to college isn't a bad thing, and just because you have a diploma doesn't make you automatically elitist. i find it hypocritical that it seen as ok to do the opposite based on an assumption of those of us who chose(and in some cases, were forced) to take a different route than those who did not go to college. my parents strongly encouraged me to do well in school, and any talk of anything else other than college (joining the military for example) was highly discouraged (and my father is a naval vet). i know a lot of people weren't raised that way, and that school doesn't come easy for everyone. but i don't think that anyone should have to apologize for the hand of cards that they are dealt in life, and it just so happens in this respect, i was lucky. i bare a reminder of this luck across my chest and heart that i see daily. this is how life is. sometimes we're lucky, and other times we're not.
and also, as Ursula said, there are some tattoo artists that i want to tell to just stick to tattooing and to not paint, because their painting, in my humble opinion, does nothing to speak for the quality of art that they produce on someone's body. now i can't remember who i was looking at, but it was an artists who work i thought was phenomenal (though not my style), and then i saw his paintings and i felt disappointed. but again, if he enjoys painting, then more power to him. his tattoos look great, and opinions on art are all subjective.
anyways, i've wrote enough i've gotta go study for math placement exams as i start down the new road i'm on in life. what i've said may be controversial or other's may disagree, but this is how i feel. i'm willing to discuss or debate all valid points of discussion, but will i not participate in any petty arguments. sorry for any typos, i don't have the attention span to proof read right now.

Unfortunately like Shawn said in the art world for most people it comes down to who you know and who knows you. It's bullshit but it's the way the world works so you juts have to make friends in the industry and learn to play the game.

I disagree with some of that.
It's very very very difficult to get noticed in any art scene based on your work alone. It's the people who network and get their shit out there who get noticed in the end. Playing the game doesn't always mean selling yourself short. You can be a good artist and also be a good networker. I have seen a lot of people who get praise they don't deserve but I've seen so many more people who are amazing artists that no one's even heard of.
For me it comes down to what you want to do with your career. If you want to be hung in galleries nation wide then game playing is almost the only way.
Guys like McQueen are very rare and even he played the game by showing up at shows and pushing his work. I feel like even sitting at home and painting alone and then posting it on a message board for sale is playing the game to an extent. You've gotta get your work in front of people to get it noticed.
Just to clear it up a bit : I don't respect someone just because of who they know and wouldn't get tattooed by someone or buy their painting just because they are known but a lot of people will.

Oh and for the record Mike Wilson went to art school and he's (in my opinion) in the top ten tattooers in the country.

Every tattooer EVER has "ripped off" other tattooers.
Actually every artist in the history of forever has ripped something off.
Sailor Jerry wasn't the first person to put a banner on an anchor and call it a tattoo. All those images came from somewhere. Bob Roberts, Ed Hardy, Jerry, insert any tattooers name here all have done re-paints of other people's flash. I've done it your done it and now this dude with his painting has done it. He can ask for whatever he wants for his painting. It likely won't sell but that's just because no one know's who he is. It's not the best painting I've seen but man I've seen people who actually do tattoos who's painting are pure garbage and still they sell.
The main point for me is this: make art if you are truly driven to make art. Be inspired by what strikes you. Take those things that inspire you and make them your own. And when you are finished your masterpiece ask whatever you want for it and hope it sells. If you stay with it eventually people will notice you for your talent and want to give you money. I'll finish by saying of all the 'art' I've made in the last ten years I have sold or traded far less then half of the things. As for the rest, I don't care if it's sold or not. I make things because I'm driven to, not for money. The money is just a really rad added bonus which hopefully one day it will be enough to support me.

Every tattooer EVER has "ripped off" other tattooers.
Actually every artist in the history of forever has ripped something off.
Sailor Jerry wasn't the first person to put a banner on an anchor and call it a tattoo. All those images came from somewhere. Bob Roberts, Ed Hardy, Jerry, insert any tattooers name here all have done re-paints of other people's flash. I've done it your done it and now this dude with his painting has done it. He can ask for whatever he wants for his painting. It likely won't sell but that's just because no one know's who he is. It's not the best painting I've seen but man I've seen people who actually do tattoos who's painting are pure garbage and still they sell.
The main point for me is this: make art if you are truly driven to make art. Be inspired by what strikes you. Take those things that inspire you and make them your own. And when you are finished your masterpiece ask whatever you want for it and hope it sells. If you stay with it eventually people will notice you for your talent and want to give you money. I'll finish by saying of all the 'art' I've made in the last ten years I have sold or traded far less then half of the things. As for the rest, I don't care if it's sold or not. I make things because I'm driven to, not for money. The money is just a really rad added bonus which hopefully one day it will be enough to support me.

Unfortunately like Shawn said in the art world for most people it comes down to who you know and who knows you. It's bullshit but it's the way the world works so you juts have to make friends in the industry and learn to play the game.

saw somone online today use 'toos
how lazy can you be, just type the extra letters and make it tattoos..
my biggest cringe though is people who spell it tattoo's there's no apostrophe in the word!!!!!!!!!! Learn how to spell your own trade!!!
And of course the obvious ones that have been mentioned - tatt gun, leg sleeve, tatted up, tattys.... I think the next asshole who tells me I'm all tatted up might get a dick/vagina punch.
Actually I'm gonna also add another.. Don't tell me I'm all tatted up or 'damn you gots all kind of tatts' because I FUCKING KNOW I HAVE TATTOOS THEY ARE ON ME.

And if you do say what you want some dick will see that, think it's a good idea and go get it done... i've even had so called friends pull that shit...

saw somone online today use 'toos
how lazy can you be, just type the extra letters and make it tattoos..
my biggest cringe though is people who spell it tattoo's there's no apostrophe in the word!!!!!!!!!! Learn how to spell your own trade!!!
And of course the obvious ones that have been mentioned - tatt gun, leg sleeve, tatted up, tattys.... I think the next asshole who tells me I'm all tatted up might get a dick/vagina punch.
Actually I'm gonna also add another.. Don't tell me I'm all tatted up or 'damn you gots all kind of tatts' because I FUCKING KNOW I HAVE TATTOOS THEY ARE ON ME.

saw somone online today use 'toos
how lazy can you be, just type the extra letters and make it tattoos..
my biggest cringe though is people who spell it tattoo's there's no apostrophe in the word!!!!!!!!!! Learn how to spell your own trade!!!
And of course the obvious ones that have been mentioned - tatt gun, leg sleeve, tatted up, tattys.... I think the next asshole who tells me I'm all tatted up might get a dick/vagina punch.
Actually I'm gonna also add another.. Don't tell me I'm all tatted up or 'damn you gots all kind of tatts' because I FUCKING KNOW I HAVE TATTOOS THEY ARE ON ME.

Really my only goal is to take any opportunity I can to get tattooed by people I enjoy to be around and do phenomenal work. There are always people I would jump at the opportunity to get tattooed by but in the meantime I have managed to get a pretty good list going just going about my business getting tattooed and just paying attention to who is around what week and dropping into shops when I am visiting a city.

It's been an amazing opportunity for me as a non-tattooer being able to have seen all the art in his shops and a lot of stuff him Mike, Richard and others who've been through the shop have collected over the years. Priceless really. Being around his shops really helped me learn a lot about art and what a good tattoo can be.

I'm getting tattooed by Robert Ryan on Monday and Deno on Tuesday.
Both are in hellish (inner thigh and armpit) spots that I expect to leave me crying like a wee baby. This whole painting myself into a corner thing was dumb. I should have started with the shit spots and ended up 36 years old and making appointments for my forearms.

there's some amazing stuff in this thread! totally blown away.
anyways here's my back, in progress by Mr. Mike Wilson at Inksmith Jax Beach
obviously this has been worked around an existing tattoo on my upper back

The possibilities of this thread are endless.

Hey guys,
I make these rad (i think they're rad) hand embroidered things. Hand embroidered means no sewing machine, just me and a needle and some thread. I'd love it if you checked them out! You can see them on my blog www.thread-wizard.com or my Etsy store Thread Wizard by UrsulaThomson on Etsy
Also huge thanks to those of you who've bought my stuff online and at conventions!
THANKS!

it's too bad chicks like her ruin it for the rest of us tattooed ladies.

the inscription inside the ring he gave her says "im the nigger you need" jesus didnt he adopt a african american baby with sandra? how about not doing stupid shit like get married when clearly you can't stay faithful????? what ever she was fucking all kinds behind olivers back i guess she will get hers..

It's been an amazing opportunity for me as a non-tattooer being able to have seen all the art in his shops and a lot of stuff him Mike, Richard and others who've been through the shop have collected over the years. Priceless really. Being around his shops really helped me learn a lot about art and what a good tattoo can be.

It's been an amazing opportunity for me as a non-tattooer being able to have seen all the art in his shops and a lot of stuff him Mike, Richard and others who've been through the shop have collected over the years. Priceless really. Being around his shops really helped me learn a lot about art and what a good tattoo can be.

there's some amazing stuff in this thread! totally blown away.
anyways here's my back, in progress by Mr. Mike Wilson at Inksmith Jax Beach
obviously this has been worked around an existing tattoo on my upper back