a_beukeveld

Going to be discussing my back/ribs with Dave on Sunday while he tattoos me.
With just my own input as of now, Im thinking full "turtle" backpiece extending down the thighs, just before the knees, and wrapping around the torso with 2 opposite images on either rib, with the "river" down the front. I already have a traditional chest piece so we will have to work around it.
Im stuck between the goddess Benzaiten with her bowa and a white dragon, the pearl diver and dragon, or just a dragon. As for the ribs Im thinking a Nue on one side and a Kirin on the other. I enjoy the contrast between the two. As for the back of the thighs Im not sure. It depends what goes on my back. Im thinking Tennyo would be nice. I look forward to his input.

You're better off just going directly to the tattooer and asking them. Theres no need to create a middleman between you and the tattooer. Even If there were tattooers on this forum (which there arent many) you still dont need anyone else's advice besides the person who is going to do the tattoo. Find one tattooer, commit to being tattooed by them, and discuss your idea with them. Dont shop hop and hope for design ideas/critiques from other artists because they probably wont give it to you.
There's allot of ways the design could be improved. Much too many for anyone to write down in a post. Improvements on balacing, tangent points, major and minor hirarchy, trasition through the composition. Stuff that takes years to learn and understand. The tattooer has already figured this stuff out. You dont need to worry about it being self expression. It will still be your idea, but just inturpreted through the eyes of someone who knows how it will work. The concept and "meaning" should never take a backseat to the design, because in the end of the day thats what a tattoo is, a design. Its meant to look good on your body.
As for saying you're "bad", take it as a gift. I wish more people told me my stuff was no good in the past. Through out the years of art making, I, and many other artists will tell you, that your art starts improving once you start hating it. The cycle to improving your artist ability is "Make something until you love it, and then stare at it until you hate it. And repeat". If you dislike a piece, it means you are concious that something is wrong, and that you need to improve. This cycle will go on until you die, and by the end if it you willmake amazing things. Youre at the beginning stages, and I assume you dont recieve much critisism of your art, just like I didnt when I was your age. If you desire to be better, fight for it. This is what I have learned.

The koi and dragon is a great image. There is a Chinese legend of The Dragon Gate, where the koi that ascends the waterfall and reaches the peak is transformed into a dragon. In Japan, the koi repressents hard work, dedication, and confidence. The koi s a symbol used on Boys Day, in hopes that your sons would be like the koi. The koi swimming the waterfall and being transformed into a powerful beast repressents over coming obstacles in ones life and attaining greatness and success through hard work and dedication. The dragon ascending into the heavens repressents success in life.
I think you should have the koi on your forarm and dragon on you upper arm. Its a beautiful image, and great story. The hannya repressents anger, jealousy and sarrow, and can be used as a symbol of change, (usually paired with maple leaves for this reason) a repressentation of the full swing of human emotion, (sarrow and mourning to bitter hatred and jealousy) or the dark side to something that was once beautiful. As far as motifs go it doesnt really fit. Id leave it out of your sleeve and get a seperate one-point style hannya elsewhere on your body.
But this is just my western impression of the info I have. I encourage you to do your own research.
I can see the tattoo now, with the koi on the forarm paired with rocks, water and sea grass, transitioning to the dragon on your upper arm paired with clouds and whirlwind. Really beautiful.

Not entirely true. From my understanding, dragons are neutral, but the majority of the time tend to be good omen. There are many instances in which dragon fight humans. Tamatori the pearl diver running from Ryujin is a good example of a ryu/human conflict. Or Susanoo who slayed the dragon Orochi to save Kushinadahime. Or the dragon that was eating children that the goddess Benzaiten soothed with her beauty, and latter (in some stories) married the dragon. There are other instances in which a witch transforms herself into a dragon as well, and stories of multi-headed evil dragon. Although rare, there are certain instances in which ryu fight swordsman.
But as for your tattoo, less is more. If I were you Id just go with a dragon skeeve with nothing else, but thats just me.

Upper thigh. If your a man or woman, no one will ever see that spot unless you really get into the effort of showing it off.
I also don't think it will translate into a nice tattoo. Change your mind and get a panther with a dagger.

When I get my hair cut I have a general idea of what I want but I don't cut it myself because I'm not a barber. Your drawing is perfectly fine as a piece of reference to take to a tattoo artist who will then draw you up a nice design based on your idea and give you a great tattoo. That's if you choose your artist wisely and let him/her do their thing. Your 30 year old self will thank you for being smart. Or you can be stubborn in which case you'll have a date with a laser instead.
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You can use your own designs as a way explain what you want, but dont expect the artist to follow your designs too closely.
Tattooers have been designing tattoos and drawing for years and years, everyday. They also know what makes a tattoo design work. Theres no sense in adding a middle man, as it just complicates something that doesnt need to be complicated.
Im an artist as well, but id never want my own designs on my body. I have the assumption that I dont know what Im doing, and most of the time its true. I cant imagine having something on me that I drew when I was 19. For example, for my 4th tattoo I was going to get a piece of shark flash on my leg, but being the idiot I was I thought I could draw it better than the tattooer could, so I traced his design and changed it, and got him to tattoo it. It turned out decent, but it would have been much better should I just have let him do his original design. I regret it. 
Ive been painting tattoo designs for over 2 years now, and Im JUST starting to understand what makes a good design. Im going to be honest and say your design is attrocious, and that I would advise you to trust the tattooer to make a better design than you can, as I can predict youll regret having your own art on you, especially if you plan on improving your drawing skill.
Find a skilled tattooer and theyll give you a great tattoo. Theyll know how to work with your ideas and give you something that works. One mantra I find myself repeating to "tattoo noobies" is "Trust your tattooer", and thats the best advice I can give you.

You're better off just going directly to the tattooer and asking them. Theres no need to create a middleman between you and the tattooer. Even If there were tattooers on this forum (which there arent many) you still dont need anyone else's advice besides the person who is going to do the tattoo. Find one tattooer, commit to being tattooed by them, and discuss your idea with them. Dont shop hop and hope for design ideas/critiques from other artists because they probably wont give it to you.
There's allot of ways the design could be improved. Much too many for anyone to write down in a post. Improvements on balacing, tangent points, major and minor hirarchy, trasition through the composition. Stuff that takes years to learn and understand. The tattooer has already figured this stuff out. You dont need to worry about it being self expression. It will still be your idea, but just inturpreted through the eyes of someone who knows how it will work. The concept and "meaning" should never take a backseat to the design, because in the end of the day thats what a tattoo is, a design. Its meant to look good on your body.
As for saying you're "bad", take it as a gift. I wish more people told me my stuff was no good in the past. Through out the years of art making, I, and many other artists will tell you, that your art starts improving once you start hating it. The cycle to improving your artist ability is "Make something until you love it, and then stare at it until you hate it. And repeat". If you dislike a piece, it means you are concious that something is wrong, and that you need to improve. This cycle will go on until you die, and by the end if it you willmake amazing things. Youre at the beginning stages, and I assume you dont recieve much critisism of your art, just like I didnt when I was your age. If you desire to be better, fight for it. This is what I have learned.

Going to be discussing my back/ribs with Dave on Sunday while he tattoos me.
With just my own input as of now, Im thinking full "turtle" backpiece extending down the thighs, just before the knees, and wrapping around the torso with 2 opposite images on either rib, with the "river" down the front. I already have a traditional chest piece so we will have to work around it.
Im stuck between the goddess Benzaiten with her bowa and a white dragon, the pearl diver and dragon, or just a dragon. As for the ribs Im thinking a Nue on one side and a Kirin on the other. I enjoy the contrast between the two. As for the back of the thighs Im not sure. It depends what goes on my back. Im thinking Tennyo would be nice. I look forward to his input.

Not entirely true. From my understanding, dragons are neutral, but the majority of the time tend to be good omen. There are many instances in which dragon fight humans. Tamatori the pearl diver running from Ryujin is a good example of a ryu/human conflict. Or Susanoo who slayed the dragon Orochi to save Kushinadahime. Or the dragon that was eating children that the goddess Benzaiten soothed with her beauty, and latter (in some stories) married the dragon. There are other instances in which a witch transforms herself into a dragon as well, and stories of multi-headed evil dragon. Although rare, there are certain instances in which ryu fight swordsman.
But as for your tattoo, less is more. If I were you Id just go with a dragon skeeve with nothing else, but thats just me.

My preference is the full donburi. Really like the look of a giant image taking up the whole torso with all the heavy black connecting everything together. With the munewari opening down the centre torso I like the wider 'river' look. Fits the body nicely. I think if you go chest panels you eventually gotta connect it down the ribs and go for it. If chest panels are made without due care for fitment to the wearer's body it sometimes gives off a dude-in-a-bra look. For women the butterfly-bodysuit look (idk what the actual term is?) is simply beautiful, where the backpiece folds over the front and caps the shoulders.
But really the japanese tattoo look is fitted to the individual and their body. I may like a certain look but my body may be built and shaped for another look that will fit and flow better.
If I were to do it all over again, I'd probably do full arms with only black windbars and full legs with only waves and rocks. But tattoo ain't about regrats or shoulda/woulda for me...I guess it isn't too late though, should be easy enough to just run over the first layer with black!
cheers

J_bradburry3 is his IG. Some of the things he does, I'm not a fan of. I
Mean technical application is there, but the style as a whole I don't like. I am a solid American and Japanese traditional guy. He has some beautiful Hannya masks on there and other killer Japanese pieces. That was all I cared about.
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Okay, I get what you're saying (atrocious I think is a bit to far but fair enough).
I understand that a tattoo artist will know what's best and going to see one who will be able to do my drawing all over again is the best bet, however talking to a professional and discussing what to change about the design is the whole reason why I'm here in the first place.
There are plenty of tattoo parlours around me who would each do something different and unique in their own way. Drawing it myself means that it's a literal expression of self, not someone's interpretation of my feelings.
I was hoping to find a bunch of people who have more experience than me in this domain willing to tell me what's wrong with the design, rather that just say it's awful and tell me to ask a professional, which is exactly what I am trying to do.

i have to admit - i used to have the idea that you have to come up with your own design - i dont do that anymore as i love to work with classic designs or designs that the tattooer has created - but here are a couple of examples of 'this' becoming 'that' - luckily - Jamie Sawyer did my design ideas justice :)

You can use your own designs as a way explain what you want, but dont expect the artist to follow your designs too closely.
Tattooers have been designing tattoos and drawing for years and years, everyday. They also know what makes a tattoo design work. Theres no sense in adding a middle man, as it just complicates something that doesnt need to be complicated.
Im an artist as well, but id never want my own designs on my body. I have the assumption that I dont know what Im doing, and most of the time its true. I cant imagine having something on me that I drew when I was 19. For example, for my 4th tattoo I was going to get a piece of shark flash on my leg, but being the idiot I was I thought I could draw it better than the tattooer could, so I traced his design and changed it, and got him to tattoo it. It turned out decent, but it would have been much better should I just have let him do his original design. I regret it. 
Ive been painting tattoo designs for over 2 years now, and Im JUST starting to understand what makes a good design. Im going to be honest and say your design is attrocious, and that I would advise you to trust the tattooer to make a better design than you can, as I can predict youll regret having your own art on you, especially if you plan on improving your drawing skill.
Find a skilled tattooer and theyll give you a great tattoo. Theyll know how to work with your ideas and give you something that works. One mantra I find myself repeating to "tattoo noobies" is "Trust your tattooer", and thats the best advice I can give you.

ok so the first important thing is to find a good tattooer
what this means is someone who is not only a technically a sound tatttooer but also someone who understands tattoo design
the elements of what you want are fine - but in the wrong hands...
a good tattooer will save you from yourself - but there are tattooers who will say sure I'll put this exact drawing on you - and that is where problems start
so once you find the right tattooer - you can bring / send this reference and explain the jist of what you're after
then let the tattooer develop the design - the design that will be on you for life
to start - where you live - maybe you have an awesome tattooer right close by

So had my consult today. It is going to be awesome. Saw his other Japanese sleeves and was amazed. So we are going with the koi and dragon themed sleeve. He was
Mentioning something about the koi collected a pearl and on his way up changed to a dragon or something like that. Anyways, his waves are some of the best I have seen. Seems like such a simply thing like water would be easy, but his just stands out. Also some windbars and cherry blossoms. He said in about 3 weeks he will have it drawn and ready for outlining. Put the deposit down and just waiting for the call. It's happening y'all. A bit nervous, but it's more excitement.
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The koi and dragon is a great image. There is a Chinese legend of The Dragon Gate, where the koi that ascends the waterfall and reaches the peak is transformed into a dragon. In Japan, the koi repressents hard work, dedication, and confidence. The koi s a symbol used on Boys Day, in hopes that your sons would be like the koi. The koi swimming the waterfall and being transformed into a powerful beast repressents over coming obstacles in ones life and attaining greatness and success through hard work and dedication. The dragon ascending into the heavens repressents success in life.
I think you should have the koi on your forarm and dragon on you upper arm. Its a beautiful image, and great story. The hannya repressents anger, jealousy and sarrow, and can be used as a symbol of change, (usually paired with maple leaves for this reason) a repressentation of the full swing of human emotion, (sarrow and mourning to bitter hatred and jealousy) or the dark side to something that was once beautiful. As far as motifs go it doesnt really fit. Id leave it out of your sleeve and get a seperate one-point style hannya elsewhere on your body.
But this is just my western impression of the info I have. I encourage you to do your own research.
I can see the tattoo now, with the koi on the forarm paired with rocks, water and sea grass, transitioning to the dragon on your upper arm paired with clouds and whirlwind. Really beautiful.

Its strange. I admire the opposite. Theres something so appealing to me about the "modest" bodysuit design. By modest I mean full back, full front with the "river" down the front, just above the knee and just before the elbow, with one main image on the back and one accompaning images on each thigh and each shoulder. I think in the west, tattoos have become sortof trite because we wear tattoos so boldly and outwordly. It looses that speacial something. I like the idea of being in control of your situation at all times, to be a tattooed person when you decide to reveal yourself. You can carry this secret side to yourself that not many people would know about. Not only that but I find it fits the body so much more naturally. Theres something about the suit stoppingvat the hands feet and neck that looks unatural to me. Not sure how I can describe it.
 
If I could start all over id go with the modest bodysuit design for sure, as apposed to the American one-point style bodysuit Im heading towards at thr moment. I still love my tattoos, but I appreciatethe Japanese philosophy much more.

Going to be discussing my back/ribs with Dave on Sunday while he tattoos me.
With just my own input as of now, Im thinking full "turtle" backpiece extending down the thighs, just before the knees, and wrapping around the torso with 2 opposite images on either rib, with the "river" down the front. I already have a traditional chest piece so we will have to work around it.
Im stuck between the goddess Benzaiten with her bowa and a white dragon, the pearl diver and dragon, or just a dragon. As for the ribs Im thinking a Nue on one side and a Kirin on the other. I enjoy the contrast between the two. As for the back of the thighs Im not sure. It depends what goes on my back. Im thinking Tennyo would be nice. I look forward to his input.

Going to Hong Kong next week...so once I get back it's open season on tattoo time (re: winter) haha. I've got a bunch of fun ideas (in painful spots, not fun!) percolating in the brain so will see how things develop and how crazy/creative I'm feeling once I get through my trip. Hmmm maybe I'll postpone my return flight a few days and see what kind of mischief I can get up to in HK...my bud did get a bare-hand Jimmy Ho tattoo last year but damn it looked gnarly and took him months to heal.
My wife is also getting tattooed by Jessie Beans in a month. I'm really excited, probably more excited about her getting tattooed than she is! cheers

I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Going to be discussing my back/ribs with Dave on Sunday while he tattoos me.
With just my own input as of now, Im thinking full "turtle" backpiece extending down the thighs, just before the knees, and wrapping around the torso with 2 opposite images on either rib, with the "river" down the front. I already have a traditional chest piece so we will have to work around it.
Im stuck between the goddess Benzaiten with her bowa and a white dragon, the pearl diver and dragon, or just a dragon. As for the ribs Im thinking a Nue on one side and a Kirin on the other. I enjoy the contrast between the two. As for the back of the thighs Im not sure. It depends what goes on my back. Im thinking Tennyo would be nice. I look forward to his input.

Thanks for your thoughts. You seem to have knowledge when it comes to this topic. I think the hannya will be taken out for sure. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
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The koi and dragon is a great image. There is a Chinese legend of The Dragon Gate, where the koi that ascends the waterfall and reaches the peak is transformed into a dragon. In Japan, the koi repressents hard work, dedication, and confidence. The koi s a symbol used on Boys Day, in hopes that your sons would be like the koi. The koi swimming the waterfall and being transformed into a powerful beast repressents over coming obstacles in ones life and attaining greatness and success through hard work and dedication. The dragon ascending into the heavens repressents success in life.
I think you should have the koi on your forarm and dragon on you upper arm. Its a beautiful image, and great story. The hannya repressents anger, jealousy and sarrow, and can be used as a symbol of change, (usually paired with maple leaves for this reason) a repressentation of the full swing of human emotion, (sarrow and mourning to bitter hatred and jealousy) or the dark side to something that was once beautiful. As far as motifs go it doesnt really fit. Id leave it out of your sleeve and get a seperate one-point style hannya elsewhere on your body.
But this is just my western impression of the info I have. I encourage you to do your own research.
I can see the tattoo now, with the koi on the forarm paired with rocks, water and sea grass, transitioning to the dragon on your upper arm paired with clouds and whirlwind. Really beautiful.