sophistre

I'm in Stockholm at the moment and joel madberg did some more on my arm. There is some space left on the wrist and a candle waiting for color in the inside of the elbow. We will finish that in belgium hopefully.
Cheers

I usually only voyeur this section of the forum, but...I AM SO EXCITED FOR THIS. I might have to take a little field trip up to Snoqualmie now that I'm living in the PNW, since that's where most of it was filmed. Gotta celebrate with some damn fine coffee. And some pie.

Well I received the grand price today :)
Unfortunatly I can't show the t-shirt together with the backpiece, but at least I got some sleeves that pair nicely with the t-shirt ;-)

(and yes, I'm sooo wearing this tomorrow to the office :) )

My dude Matt Brotka drew this and posted this on instagram a bit of a time ago. Very relevant. Photo, obviously from his account.

I am slammed at work, yet I just read this entire thread. And I'm glad that I did, because there's some great back and forth in it. Thanks to everyone who posted something good here.
I don't count my tattoos, but I do keep a list of who has tattooed me. Two weeks from today, I'm getting something from someone who's been on my wish list for a few years now. He'll be artist #42 for me. Then again, I started getting tattooed 20+ years ago. Some of the names on that list are very well-known. Some of them are complete unknowns. One of them is no longer alive, two of them have since stopped tattooing, and three of them were shit on in the this thread's first post. ;) Not a single name on that list makes me better (or worse) than anyone else who gets tattooed. But every one of them is a part of a story--my story. Just as every tattoo I have comes with a story of its own. I love meeting people and sharing stories, which is part of what I love so much about getting tattooed and hanging out with awesome people like so many of you.
I'll stop rambling now, but thanks again to those of you who made this thread worth reading.

I had a poetry prof in university a million years ago who said something on the first day of class that I think applies to so many other things in life, and maybe it's relevant here, I dunno. He was addressing the perception of many freshmen that learning how to scan poetry, learning the rules of it, didn't matter, when so many of them took a shine to poetry after discovering e.e. cummings or Eliot's The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock -- in the case of the latter, mistakenly believing that it was free verse, which it actually isn't. But that mistake underlined his point, which is this: until you're familiar with the rules of a thing, until you understand the hows and whys of that thing, which often entails becoming familiar with its major players through history...you can't really meaningfully deviate from those rules.
He said that he thinks it's important to break rules, but it's even more important to understand why you're breaking them when you do it. You start with the foundations, and then your choices have context and meaning, whatever choices you make afterward.
Maybe this doesn't apply to tattooing, I don't know; I'm still learning...but I find that most people with knowledge of a subject will assume that a new person discarding the fundamentals of any given thing are doing themselves or the thing a disservice, for lack of having the knowledge to know any better. Maybe that's not always true; maybe a new person can just intuit those things and make excellent choices blindly. It does seem rather more unlikely, though.

I've seen work from "name" artists that wasn't the greatest, but I wouldn't say any of them have "lost" it. They are all human and have off days. I used to get bent out of shape if I noticed anything on a tattoo what wasn't perfect, but now I step back and look at the piece as a whole. It would be ridiculous to write off a whole suit based on a couple blow outs/poorly healed shading here and there.
I'm in the same boat as @Graeme , I've travelled for tattoos based on how the work connects with me, and how the interaction was with the artist themselves. Skill is irrelevant if the person is an asshole.
That being said, Horiyoshi III finished this piece up in July. Can't say I'd object to being the owner!

I disagree that there needs to be room here for critical opinions and saying what we don't like about any particular tattooer's work, basically because I think most of us are ignorant about tattoos. What's that phrase that I think comes from Brooklyn Blackie? Don't look for faults in things you don't understand? Most of us here, myself included, understand very little.
I'm not going to name names here because it isn't important, but I was getting tattooed once and my tattooer was talking with one of his colleagues--both tremendous tattooers in their own right--about another tattooer that they both admire and how he tattoos in such a way that the tattoo isn't going to look quite right until it's settled into the skin a couple of years. This guy is making tattoos for the long haul, that are going to look great throughout the person's life, and not just on an Instagram photo when they're brand new. That, for me, was one of many humbling moments I've had while getting tattooed where I understood how little I actually knew. Things like this are a large reason why I said earlier that we shouldn't base our opinions on photos alone. I don't want this to be a place where we're going on about flaws in this tattooers or that tattooers work when they may not even be flaws at all.
This is also making me think of the Invisible podcast with Seth Ciferri when he talks about getting shit from people about things that were said on the Read Street Forum. I'm grateful to Scott for providing this space that has been so enriching and has been so helpful in how I get tattooed that I don't want him to have the grief of tattooers going up to him and giving him shit about why people are talking garbage about their tattoos on his forum.

Great post @exume, thanks for sharing!
In my defense I have to say that I didn't say anything about Shige. It was someone else who said he had better artists at his local shop... (still want to know where that is) Also, I think I did say that I like some of Walter McDonalds stuff a lot (?), but that I was not as into how rough and loose his style is. His ideas, design and concepts are often way cool if you ask me!
In the end, as with any art, it's a matter of preference. Someone mentioned that Chad Koeplinger tattoos in a looser style and he's in the bunch I'd consider favorite tattooers BUT I don't like the stuff that's very loose (yet). I think this could be a journey in itself, to learn to appriciate the rawness of things. A parallel could be to someone who gets into punk music by listening to, say, Bad Religion. After some years this persons taste might have refined/degraded (depending on you perspective) to the point where Discharge is his/hers favorite band, if you see the resemblence. I think it can be an obstacle to experience and enjoyment of any art form to judge it on scales of trashy - clean, dark - positive, energetic - static, and so on. There's no way to quantify the tattoo mojo and soul that is the most important ingredient.
I don't know. For me tattoos are still mostly a visual thing and sometimes used to imprint/express an idea/feeling/concept I feel strongly about. I don't doubt that Walter has a smile on his face even when sleeping and that Eddy is one of the raddest guys, that Spotlight has bullet holes in the flash or whatever. Those are great things! But I am not sure that, for me, this would help me choose and artist to get work from. For some people it probably does, and I'm not going to say who is right or wrong in this. Tattoo culture is not a sport, I think it's totally fine that people have strongly oposing ideas and taste preference and I think it's fun and evolving in it's own to discuss without having to decide who is winning an argument.
@Pugilist: I agree, it's always important to think twice about what you set in stone publicly (or set in HTML, in this case) And I absolutely think we should all try to be fair and not fall into gossip and trash talk. However, just because it's somebody's livelihood doesn't make it immune to criticism, in my opinion. One thing I like about this culture is that is participatory. You can't really be on the sidelines and still enjoy it (well you can watch Miami INK, but that's another story) Even getting just one tattoo means you have to make an active effort and become a, if tiny and shortlived, part of it. And I think one of the beautiful things is that it's not very hierarchical, no thrones of professional art critics who dictates what to think and feel about tattoos, what's good and who is not.
I think there needs to be room for discussion, in a polite and civilized way about things we/you/I don't like and to voice some critical oppinions about people's work too. I am sure Deutsche has the kind of following where he's legacy will continue to grow still (and I also think he deserves it, I hope I made that clear). I also hope that people can make up their own minds and trust their own taste. I hope we don't get threads where the sole purpose is to talk shit about somebody's work, that would be really unfair and a lowmark for the forum. In this case it made for some interesting arguments that also lead to other ideas and perspectives comming through. As long as the tone is good and people behave I think it's benificial for everyone that we're not only giving eachother high 5's in the Latest Tattoo Lowdown-thread and joining into the choir whenever a respected tattooers name is mentioned. But yeah, thanks for pointing it out!
"Think before you post!" is a good moto

This thread has been fantastic, really great discussion so far, thanks everyone for adding your thoughts! After I read the bulk of it I had to jet off to work so I didn't have time to make a cogent reply until now, hopefully some of my thoughts have survived through the past few days of working. Anyways, these are my thoughts on the subject as a client relatively new to tattoos.
Though I'd always been a fan of tattoos, I got a pretty late start on my "collection" so to speak, I loved the look of tattoos but throughout my teens and early 20s any spare cent went to drugs and booze so actually getting tattooed was fiscally impossible. I got sober, met some people with rad tattoos in and out of the program, and really started thinking about it again, I visited a bunch of trashy shops throughout the greater Colorado Springs area, and found nothing appealing in my search. I've always been a bit of a collector and really dig researching and finding the best version of whatever it is I'm looking for. I eventually found LST which I credit for helping me learn what makes a good tattoo, and really helping shape my tastes. You all have been lifesavers! Sorry for the long personal discourse but I feel it's a bit relevant to the rest of the post.
So after two years of scoring the forum for information, flipping through instagram a few times a day, following an unmanageable amount of accounts on said instagram, I finally took the plunge and booked an appointment with Marie Sena after I had seen her name on the list of artists working at a then new shop (Dedication Tattoo) down in Denver. Her style really spoke to me, I wasn't really familiar with her as a "name" in the tattoo game, maybe read about her on here once or twice but I feel extremely lucky to have such a wonderful first tattoo from such a fantastic person.
I never really set out to be the guy who never gets tattooed by the same person twice, but as of yet that's how it's turning out. I am wary of being perceived as some sort of "starfucker" as @Pugilist put it, but with Denver being so centrally located in this country I am presented with a lot of great opportunities via guest spots to get work from great tattooers! How am I going to pass up a chance to get tattooed by Adam Shrewsbury while he's in town for a couple days, he doesn't even make tattoos regularly when he's home! Chad's going to be here in a couple weeks? Well I'd better find a way to stack some cash because I won't let myself miss out on that. I have a list in my head of people I'd love to get work from, some may be big names, but it's all because their work speaks to me in ways that I can't really quantify, I don't want the most star-studded skin, I just want stuff that makes me happy when I look in the mirror.
Besides the power of the imagery, it really is all about the experience though. Any time I've been tattooed by someone with a "big name" they have been some of the realest, most down to earth people I've met. Jeff Zuck is a gentleman and a scholar, Marie, as I said earlier, literally one of the nicest people I've ever met. Adam is the most down to earth dude, you can just tell how grateful he is to be spending his life making rad art for people. Every tattoo that I've seen Chad put out has blown my mind, and I was pleasantly surprised to see how humble he was, making sure the other guys in the shop thought the composition was solid on his sketch, ready to wipe it all away and start over if Joe didn't like something about it. Myke Chamber seems to get a bit of grief around here, maybe he's too self-promotional, his drawings are simplistic, but his message in all the interviews is a story of hope for those of us struggling with addiction, and I could tell that he was really grateful for his position in life.
Now, @mmikaoj, again, I appreciate you starting this thread, the discussion has been really great! You caught enough flak for what you said about Deutsche, Shige, and Horiyoshi III, but I had to jump in and defend Walter McDonald! I know that some of his tattoos look a little off, definitely not what anyone would call perfect, but goddammit they are fucking tattoo magic in the flesh! That man is one of the best human beings I've had the pleasure of meeting, it's impossible to imagine him without a smile on his face. His shop is beautiful, flash from floor to ceiling, exactly what you picture in your head when you think "tattoo shop," not to mention that he's mostly responsible for me and the rest of the state being so spoiled for choice when it comes to guest artists on a regular basis. Walter is the coolest and I can't wait to get a tattoo from him.
Sorry about the rambling, hope I didn't stray too far from what I was trying to get across.

To get back to the questions originally asked, I'm not sure that any of us can really be honest about why we want a certain design or why we want a specific person to put it on us (I believe in the unconscious). For me, I usually decide I want a certain design, then think about who does that design in the way that I like most. (I like to think that) I'm not a sucker for big names, but I do think I am a sucker for "authenticity" and "soulfulness." For me, some tattooers and their works have an ineffable draw that goes beyond form or technical proficiency. Certainly, relatively unknown tattooers could possess that quality, but it's less likely that I would find out about them. In regards to masters and their successors, hopefully the successors would be doing something new or different enough to be recognized for their own work. As far as the experience of getting tattooed, the tricky thing is that you never know until after the fact. I am, of course, more compelled to go back to people I enjoyed getting tattooed by and talking to than not. It's such an intense experience getting tattooed that I couldn't imagine going back to someone I didn't enjoy regardless of their reputation or skill.

Dave Regan added some maple leaves to the namakubi he put above my knee at the beginning of July. I apologize for the awful day after picture. I really can't sing Dave's praises enough. He's a talented and funny fellow that makes getting tattooed a joy.

@HaydenRose, I think those peonies just singlehandedly sold me on asking for a big fat floral something on my arm next. I was waffling on which idea to run with first, but...those are just gorgeous.

I had a poetry prof in university a million years ago who said something on the first day of class that I think applies to so many other things in life, and maybe it's relevant here, I dunno. He was addressing the perception of many freshmen that learning how to scan poetry, learning the rules of it, didn't matter, when so many of them took a shine to poetry after discovering e.e. cummings or Eliot's The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock -- in the case of the latter, mistakenly believing that it was free verse, which it actually isn't. But that mistake underlined his point, which is this: until you're familiar with the rules of a thing, until you understand the hows and whys of that thing, which often entails becoming familiar with its major players through history...you can't really meaningfully deviate from those rules.
He said that he thinks it's important to break rules, but it's even more important to understand why you're breaking them when you do it. You start with the foundations, and then your choices have context and meaning, whatever choices you make afterward.
Maybe this doesn't apply to tattooing, I don't know; I'm still learning...but I find that most people with knowledge of a subject will assume that a new person discarding the fundamentals of any given thing are doing themselves or the thing a disservice, for lack of having the knowledge to know any better. Maybe that's not always true; maybe a new person can just intuit those things and make excellent choices blindly. It does seem rather more unlikely, though.

Got this one yesterday:

It is done by Zooki at The Sailors Grave, Copenhagen.
My best friend got a matching one. I recently moved to Copenhagen, which is 400 km away from where I lived before, and this weekend my best friend visited me for the first time since I moved here. We got these in celebration of his visit :)

@HaydenRose, I think those peonies just singlehandedly sold me on asking for a big fat floral something on my arm next. I was waffling on which idea to run with first, but...those are just gorgeous.

I had a poetry prof in university a million years ago who said something on the first day of class that I think applies to so many other things in life, and maybe it's relevant here, I dunno. He was addressing the perception of many freshmen that learning how to scan poetry, learning the rules of it, didn't matter, when so many of them took a shine to poetry after discovering e.e. cummings or Eliot's The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock -- in the case of the latter, mistakenly believing that it was free verse, which it actually isn't. But that mistake underlined his point, which is this: until you're familiar with the rules of a thing, until you understand the hows and whys of that thing, which often entails becoming familiar with its major players through history...you can't really meaningfully deviate from those rules.
He said that he thinks it's important to break rules, but it's even more important to understand why you're breaking them when you do it. You start with the foundations, and then your choices have context and meaning, whatever choices you make afterward.
Maybe this doesn't apply to tattooing, I don't know; I'm still learning...but I find that most people with knowledge of a subject will assume that a new person discarding the fundamentals of any given thing are doing themselves or the thing a disservice, for lack of having the knowledge to know any better. Maybe that's not always true; maybe a new person can just intuit those things and make excellent choices blindly. It does seem rather more unlikely, though.

Done by Matt Cowell at House of Tattoo, Tacoma. A super cool guy that I am lucky to have got to know over the year process. Hours on end talking about our kids, our lives growing up, music, and our love for the regular show.

Here they are (stolen from her instagram)! By Nora Townsend of Magnetic North Tattoo in Burlington, VT. So blown away by the end result and love how big (and low :eek:!) we went. Nora is so amazing, and it was refreshing to talk candidly about the tattoo industry and all our favorite artists. She's apparently heavily influenced by Wendy Pham... kickass! I was so impressed how knowledgeable a small town shop in the middle of nowhere VT can be. One of the co-owners of the shop showed me an old in-progress O'Donnell piece, soo good. Made me miss being in NYC, but very relieved to have a solid shop down the street from me!

Interesting thread. I've been drinking a bit and now the wife is blasting some Nick Cave so take anything I write from that starting point.
I'm not as deep into tattoo culture as some of you. That means nothing one way or the other but seems worth pointing out here. I started later in life but do like my tattoos. I have limited space, even less if I decide to stick to not having visible tattoos work wise (undecided but still an option).
For me it's important that I have a good experience and get a good tattoo. Please note that I did not say great tattoo. Perfection, for me at least, is overrated in most things. Of course I don't want a bad tattoo but I also don't want a great tattoo with a story of frustration and disappointment to match it. It's a balance right?
The thing I think about is how much space do I want to save for new artists and how much do I want to "give" to the artist who has already put most of my tattoos on me? With that artist I know I am going to have fun and I know I am going to get a quality tattoo but will it be unique? Maybe not for me since I already have many by him. It's a balance like I said.
Anyway, something is next right. What ever it is I promise I will consider these factors- will I have fun and do I trust that the artist is capable of putting down something I can feel good about. There are many artists out there who can meet these two simple requirements.
The biggest question is who will I eventually trust with my left shoulder/arm which is still blank? The plan at this point is to wait until I have the time and money to go for an all encompassing plan but what that will end up being is wide open. It could be a few years. In the mean time I have an idea for a few filler roses and something original that I think my usual artist would enjoy drawing up.
There are so many good ways to do everything. That's what makes this whole life thing fun.

I got a thing today. Hard to believe it too me almost 33 years to finally start. A fun Percy Waters bird from Greggletron/Greg Whitehead at Scapegoat Tattoo. I stole the picture from his instagram.

Side note: I really appreciate this forum. I went to my appointment totally prepared and actually knowing more than the average bear (which is still only a very little, admittedly), and he kept asking me 'are you sure this is your first tattoo?' He kept talking about how pumped he was to work on somebody who'd give him creative license, who knew about Good Tattoos and what makes them good, and...yeah. It made me feel really good. I'm pretty sure I learned all of that here. He would probably thank the forum too if he could. Haha.
Booked my next appointment for October. IT BEGINS.

I had a poetry prof in university a million years ago who said something on the first day of class that I think applies to so many other things in life, and maybe it's relevant here, I dunno. He was addressing the perception of many freshmen that learning how to scan poetry, learning the rules of it, didn't matter, when so many of them took a shine to poetry after discovering e.e. cummings or Eliot's The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock -- in the case of the latter, mistakenly believing that it was free verse, which it actually isn't. But that mistake underlined his point, which is this: until you're familiar with the rules of a thing, until you understand the hows and whys of that thing, which often entails becoming familiar with its major players through history...you can't really meaningfully deviate from those rules.
He said that he thinks it's important to break rules, but it's even more important to understand why you're breaking them when you do it. You start with the foundations, and then your choices have context and meaning, whatever choices you make afterward.
Maybe this doesn't apply to tattooing, I don't know; I'm still learning...but I find that most people with knowledge of a subject will assume that a new person discarding the fundamentals of any given thing are doing themselves or the thing a disservice, for lack of having the knowledge to know any better. Maybe that's not always true; maybe a new person can just intuit those things and make excellent choices blindly. It does seem rather more unlikely, though.

@mmikaoj - thanks for kicking off a good thread, with a lot going on in it.
I would think most of us can get behind the OP's premise that sometimes big name culture can be a poor guide to who to get tattooed by. If the reason someone is chosen as an artist is because they HAVE that big name, not because of what earned it for them, then that's, as @Pugilist said, something like starfucking.
It's not even the same as people who get tattooed by Ami James because he's on TV... It's actually different because it's masquerading as something more like connoisseurship, even though it isn't.
I've been in a couple of shops where I think, objectively speaking (if such s thing is possible) the newer tattooers that were being brought along were clearly going to outstrip their teachers eventually. Jondix and Horiyoshi III must have been rookies and then journeymen too at some stage. There must have been a tipping point somewhere where people getting work from them knew that they were lucky to be in the seat at that time.
Where this thread falls into controversy is when Eddie and Horiyoshi III were somewhat roughly evaluated. I don't agree that Eddie Deutsche has even remotely lost it, FWIW, and in the case of Horiyoshi III I don't know enough to comment. I concluded a while back that his instagram photos were not a good guide, full stop, but a tattooer whose opinion I trust told me he thought that health problems were taking their toll on his tattooing. I would get tattooed by him because of who he is, but I wouldn't go in there expecting it to be like a tattoo done in his prime.
On the whole taking offence / smack talking thing... I don't think anything in this thread has crossed that line yet. So far all I see are honestly held opinions, misguided or subjective perhaps, but no full-blown smack-talking.
I DO want to know where the local shop with tattooers as good as Shige, Horiyoshi III etc is... I'm guessing Rock of Ages or something

I've really enjoyed reading this thread so far.
I think a few things are happening here:
- If we're talking about people who take a collector's approach to getting tattooed (and I don't necessarily mean that in a negative way), maybe interest in big names could be seen as roughly similar to getting books or music that are fairly "correct" but express little about a person. I know I own a lot of music like this, but I don't regret having it because it's helped me seperate what I like from what I'm supposed to like (and may still appreciate somewhat, but that doesn't viscerally excite me like a favorite album or novel). I think this is a phase that many folks need to go through when they discover a new interest but haven't really begun to inhabit it yet.
-Most of us who aren't tattooers always need to spend money on this hobby (or whatever word you want to use). We're not trading art. Maybe there's an anxiety that this isn't any different from purchasing other things, even though it's a lot more intimate. Are my tattoos ultimately just an expensive suit? Am I just buying my way into something?
I think there's also a point at which "good taste" becomes suffocating.
I hope this makes sense and that it isn't just rambling. A lot of this is overthinking and I try not to worry about it and to just get what excites me. I can't control how it comes across to others, and you can tie yourself in knots thinking about your own motivations.

@CultExciter awwww shit gurl :o
So I know the Horiyoshi III thing had been dropped, but I've been blessed enough to see 3 of his tattoos in person and they are OUT OF FUCKING CONTROL. One of them is a peony on the forearm, want to know what sort of stencil he used? A square. Drawn on with a sharpie. Let's not forget that the man is in his 70s. Ahem, anyway
Tim Lehi is a great example of a very loose tattooer who delivers with power every time.
And also, to touch on the statement that Stuart Cripwell has gone the more wonky route when he could have been cleaner, I'll just say this. After a certain period of experience in tattooing, your style reflects your natural drawing. Your early years are largely about learning how to put the tattoo in, and then once you kinda figure that out, you can bend the rules of tattooing to suit the sort of art that you want to make. So to me it seems kinda silly to say "oh he could have done this but instead he chose to do this," when I think most of us are just trying to make tattoos that we think are awesome.