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Zillah

Uncomfortable/disempowering tattoo experiences

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Yes' date=' you being reminded that somebody bolding something that you literally wrote when you complain that they are twisting your words is the same as someone who is being sexually harassed while in an especially vulnerable position. You are even fucking stupider than I assumed you are.[/quote']

You know what they say about assuming right? Well, there ya go.

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Silence is not consent! I can't believe I am debating this!

Just because one person would say or do something, doesn't mean some else in a similar situation would or could - that's ridiculous! Everyone has different coping mechanisms to get through a uncomfortable and vulnerable situation. She did the best she could, she did not invite those comments, nor is she bound to school that jackass about proper behavior towards women.

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Hell yes, you don't think slaves and civil rights people were scared to speak up? Damn right they were. Always speak up when TRULY wronged, it's actually quite in powering and breds confidence and will improve your personal happiness.

I think we are getting a little off track...

Lets return to the original situation. In your opinion who is more responsible for the uncomfortable and unprofessional situation the tattooer or the client?

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Silence is not consent! I can't believe I am debating this! Just because one person would say or do something' date=' doesn't mean some else in a similar situation would or could - that's ridiculous! Everyone has different coping mechanisms to get through a uncomfortable and vulnerable situation. She did the best she could, she did not invite those comments, nor is she bound to school that jackass about proper behavior towards women.[/quote']

Never said she did, I'm saying by not speaking up, you leave the door open for more comments.

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I think we are getting a little off track... Lets return to the original situation. In your opinion who is more responsible for the uncomfortable and unprofessional situation the tattooer or the client?

Absolutely the tattooer is at fault, hands down.

All I'm trying to say is that he still has no idea he offended her and likely will continue to make these statements.

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Silence is not consent! I can't believe I am debating this! Just because one person would say or do something' date=' doesn't mean some else in a similar situation would or could - that's ridiculous! Everyone has different coping mechanisms to get through a uncomfortable and vulnerable situation. She did the best she could, she did not invite those comments, nor is she bound to school that jackass about proper behavior towards women.[/quote']

So if my artist shows me what he has come up with and I don't like a part of it but I don't speak up, am I not consenting to getting that part I don't like?

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Not the same thing at all.

Ppl over complicate, it's simple. If you don't like something, speak up.

Sure it's not the same exact situation, but like she won't forget that exp, ever, I won't forget the the tattoo I don't like, ever.

Speak your minds ppl, always.

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The problem is that when you are in a vulnerable position, it is pretty difficult to speak up. Calling misogynistic behaviour out rarely ends with the perpetrator apologising and reflecting on what they've said/done. At best, you might get a patronising 'lighten up' type response, at worst an aggressive response.

"Silence is consent" is victim-blaming bullshit. This is far more offensive than I think you realise, and is scarily close to blaming her for what clothes she was wearing.

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When I got my peony in December, the thing I had my arm draped over slipped down a notch. He leaned down and said "Well shoot, sorry about that I didn't have it in the right hole" then he turned a bit pink and was like uhhh umm...sooowaaaa....and I busted out laughing. It was a true enough statement, but just that little bit of dirty minded-ness is all it took. Had my husband been sitting there, he'd have laughed too, b/c it was funny, it was said innocently and it was our own dirty minds that took it there. HOWEVER. If he'd made comments on my TITS, and I'd felt too intimidated to say something, that doesn't mean it's MY fault. And he'd have had his teeth knocked down his throat after I went to my husband about it. WOMEN, as a general RULE are NOT encouraged to STAND UP FOR OURSELVES. Not around men. No, we absolutely are 100% NOT. it's one thing for dirty jokes to be bantered back and forth, especially when the shop is an open plan. It's SO not in even the same realm as speaking directly to another person's body parts. It's not ok. And it's not ok to say she should've spoken up b/c it's not always easy to do. I'm more outspoken about things (SOMETIMES) b/c I happen to have a big and mean looking husband who people find intimidating. And he has had to come to "my rescue" a time or two, b/c of things guys have said/done. I also have had to go to my incredibly protective brother. It 100% was rude and he's lucky he still has his teeth and is not speaking in a high falsetto if that's how he speaks to female clients.

And really, if she'd have said something, what would've happened? Oh gee lady, you're right, I'm sorry. HA NO WAY. He'd have dropped his jaw and stared at her and slid back in his rolley chair and been like "are you kidding me? Seriously? You're OFFENDED? haha listen to this guys, this PERSON is offended that I'm looking at her TITS" or some such drivel like that. Set herself up for that? Why?

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Are you blaming her for his rude comment?
Just saying everything is not black and white like that...like I said I am guilty of saying things that I later heard were offensive to a client and it bothered me because I was clueless about it...because the types of comments I make do not offend most...pretty tame I think...but perhaps I could be more sensitive about stuff like that.

btw I do agree with the OP now that she has clarified...does seem a bit creepy.

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I don't want to sound like I'm siding with the victim blaming "silence is consent" school of thought, but I have to say, I'm all for women speaking up for themselves even if their husband/brother/whatever isn't around. Most everyone will back down if you assert yourself with confidence. If you don't want to speak directly to the tattooer, that's understandable, but the manager probably deserves to hear about it. Or, you could get up and leave, and contact the police. Hell, even venting on a tattoo forum is greatly preferable to keeping it to yourself.

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I feel like you are really missing the point.
Na, she was wronged.. I'd go so far as to say violated, and that's fucked up, it pisses me off.

At the same time it bothers me that as far as we as humans have come that ppl are afraid to stand up for themselves. I've been picked on, pushed around, beat up and bullied etc etc, but after you punch the bully in the face, that shit stops.

On a side note, I wouldn't have a problem with putting this tattooers name out there so other ladies know who to watch out for.

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Na, she was wronged.. I'd go so far as to say violated, and that's fucked up, it pisses me off.

At the same time it bothers me that as far as we as humans have come that ppl are afraid to stand up for themselves. I've been picked on, pushed around, beat up and bullied etc etc, but after you punch the bully in the face, that shit stops.

On a side note, I wouldn't have a problem with putting this tattooers name out there so other ladies know who to watch out for.

Weather you realize it or not, a statement like "silence is consent" is bullying.

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Weather you realize it or not' date=' a statement like "silence is consent" is bullying.[/quote']

I can see that in some context, but not here. I made my feelings crystal clear and ppl choose to take my statements out of context then that's their problem not mine.

The tattooer did some foul shit, but you have to stand up a draw the line, no one can do that for you.

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Well originally I was going to post one of my own experiences after seeing the thread title but was side tracked by the discussion. Anyway...

Some background info...I have a fairly large amount of coverage...probably more than 50%. I am not the most toughest client but I have been told by most that I sit pretty well...even if I want to take hourly breaks and all which may be annoying to some.

So I am getting a tattoo from Shotsie at T&B 2013 in Santa Rosa...this was like a dream come true because I admired his stuff from my very beginnings, in the late 80s. So I guess I am kinda frazzled by my recent long flight and am kinda hyper. Wanted several cig breaks in the course of the 3 hour piece. He reminded I was paying by the hour but I was cool with that...nicotine addiction is a bitch! I guess I wasn't too comfy sitting in the chair(I prefer lying for any body part if possible) and was moving around too much...he never said anything, but maybe I could of been more aware. But you know...tattoos kinda hurt lol.

So at the end of it, I am feeling very good, that "I made it and here is my reward' feeling you get when I particular piece is finished...as he is wrapping it up he says with a surly tone..."I sure hope your customers sit better than you...I had to wrestle you the whole time"...which I felt was bullshit because I don't move while the needle is in my skin...maybe I shifted too much when he dipped I guess. It was an instant buzzkill...even the extra $100 I had set aside for tippage was no consolation. Its a beautiful tattoo but every time I look at it I can't help but think how much the situation soured my experience.

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I can see that in some context, but not here. I made my feelings crystal clear and ppl choose to take my statements out of context then that's their problem not mine.

The tattooer did some foul shit, but you have to stand up a draw the line, no one can do that for you.

I can see that in some context, but not here. I made my feelings crystal clear and ppl choose to take my statements out of context then that's their problem not mine.

The tattooer did some foul shit, but you have to stand up a draw the line, no one can do that for you.

There's no right context for that statement, and you said it twice. I read everything in this thread, I know the full context of what you said. I agree that it's important to draw the line and I personally draw the line at people saying things like what you said twice. If you can't understand that I don't know what to tell you.

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There's no right context for that statement' date=' and you said it twice. I read everything in this thread, I know the full context of what you said. I agree that it's important to draw the line and I personally draw the line at people saying things like what you said twice. If you can't understand that I don't know what to tell you.[/quote']

Maybe reading comprehension is the problem then, idk, because I also stated several times it wasn't her fault at all.

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