deaddreamnation

that settles it im making all the guys at the shop dress like they work at in and out burger, white paper hats and all.............................................dude get a new job. for the record i wear a pair of levis or bens red wings and what ever shirt is the first one on the pile, thats how i work best. not really a fashion plate over here..

Also, @Scott R (and everyone else)

"I'll post it up in the video thread, too!

I generally let the artist do what he or she wants to do or is stoked about doing!
I have found that if an artist is excited about doing the tattoo that i generally am
going to get their best work and they usually are happier and more talkative because
they are finally doing something they want to do not something the customer has
asked them to do!
This could also be why i have 2 vaginas, 3 dildos, and a penis tattooed on me too.....but hey....I have no regrets and love every single tattoo i have in my collection!
:)

I feel like I've done something wrong if the tattoo I end up with looks too much like my mental picture of it.
That said:
I tend to go in with abstracts; I'll throw out words and just keep riffing with the tattooer until it's a nice blend of my concept and their execution.
I'd never say 'do whatever you want' because that could end up badly. If I tattooed and someone said that, there'd be a LOT more badgers and turkeys in the tattoo world. And lots of dicks.

There are plenty of versions of this song, I just happen to like the muppets the best.

I'm not trying to derail what is a serious discussion; just pointing out that pretty much any major style in the last 30 years of tattoo culture originated with my pen and ink skillz.

I made posts on the facebook page because there were at least 5 of MY designs in there. None of the stuff I posted or really anything anyone else posted was actually "Shit talk". It was people just finding out about it, and being upset. I posted something about this on another forum, so instead of retyping it all, I'm going to go ahead and copy and paste it.
"In a case such as this where the person can't even make a simple clean design she is clearly tracing shit off the net and trying to make her name on it. The owl of mine that she used isn't flash. It was a tattoo that I did on one of this forum's members as a matter of fact. The other stuff of mine that was used was from one painting that I made for another tattooer that while in flash form, was a one shot painting. No prints. So she traced it and added it to her sheets. These are all in a book that she was selling in Philly. Making her name off designs that obviously aren't hers.
Tattooing DOES have a history of reinterpretation and appropriation, but there are lines. When I design flash for sale I don't care who tattoos it as long as it was bought from me and you aren't telling anyone that you drew it up. When it hangs in your shop or sits in your flash racks or book, my name is still on it. No problems at all. Go for it.
When you use it instead of drawing something because you're lazy and then tell someone it's yours that's bullshit. Also, when people are tracing tattoos right off the net and passing them off to the unaware masses as their "clever" designs it's bullshit.
And I completely understand, once you put it out there, it's liable to get lifted, but does that mean that opinions on such behavior can't be voiced and standards shouldn't be set against such behavior?
Absolutely not. People need to say shit to suckers. Tattooers seem to forget that yeah there.s a big tradition of lifting designs and whatnot, but there's also a tradition of protecting what's yours. Either by booby trapping it, making sure your name is ALWAYS attached to it, or by keeping it off radar. In this economy I'd love to be the off the radar guy. Just can't make it work, and if I'm spending the amount of time drawing, researching, reading, collection references, and building a stylistic vocabulary that is at least a little my own, then yes, I should be protective of it.
There's also the thing where tracing, and repainting flash by long gone, or otherwise retired old timers is different than repainting and then SELLING under your own name a bunch of shit being done by today's current people.
Shit's gonna happen, people are lazy, everyone LOVES to say there's nothing new under the sun, but it doesn't make it right or true. Chick is a thief. Ain't nothing on those sheets hers and a huge amount is from current people tattoos. Not even flash. She was at our booth in Philly this weekend. She didn't even buy my set after selling her book with my shit in it."
So to the person who was saying these things were never meant to be made public, and they were for personal use and to show clients, or to show clients, why even do that? Why trace my shit to show HER clients? So the people who don;t know ay better will see those designs as hers. That's not cool. Her illness aside, it's still a crummy thing to do to a lot of people.
I take issue with how You've come in here using "our favorite medium to talk shit" and try to talk to us like we're 12 year olds. Sorry she's in a bad way with cancer, but my sister is fucked to the nines with cancer but I still think she's the shittiest person I know. If this was truly about the merits of the sketchbook, then just stick to that. Don;t bring up things that don;t matter to the argument to just try to drum up some sort of viewpoint on her like she can't be called out on this shit.
I was AT Philly. She was in my booth. Talked to me. Still sold sheets with her name on in and mine, and other tattooers designs on them. None of those pages said anything like "designs by Wells, re-imagining by Jeiven." Which is kind of the thing you do when selling some shit that isn't yours. I didn't even know about this shit until a few days ago or I would have said something. And when get to Brooklyn next week I AM going to talk to her. Like an adult. So save the "you guys are all shit talkers" crap. Some of us are pissed.
Look. I'm no tattoo genius. I'm just a dude making tattoos and trying to make clients happy like everyone else, but I work my ass off to do so. My library is huge and very little of that is tattoo books. I spend hours upon hours drawing and re drawing. Again, I'm nothing special, but why can't she do that if her stuff is supposed to be so personal? Go to museums and collect old books. Not facebook tracings. The sketchbook you said was so AMAZING is 98 percent CURRENT tattooers drawings. Not old Jerry flash.

Not exactly what you're talking about, but....
A few years back, I went to a tattooer who also did lasering to get some kanji zapped off my shin. He did several sessions, but it wasn't lightening up much, so he decided to try something. He tattooed white over it, let it heal, then lasered it again. The end result was...well, it wasn't as good as what @Scott R's results are, but I was able to cover it pretty easily.
It went from this youthful indiscretion:

To this lasered and white-inked version:

To this Jeff Rassier piece:

So all these people passing out and doing weird shit stories reminds me of one. i was tattooing this fairly tough looking black dude with a name or something on his back. About halfway through he lifts his head from the chair and is beaded with sweat. I ask him if he is ok...no response...yo dude you alright?...just staring blankly ahead. Now i am thinking fuck, this is weird and i have someone grab him some water, which he doesn't take or anything and now you can tell he is faded his head is bobbing up and down. So i think well i have one of those ammonia/smelling salt packets and crack it under his nose... the dude made an EWWW face and then proceeds to try and stand up which he falls back i get him to the ground. now laying on his back he must think he is trying to get away from someone because his is "running" while on his back. seconds after that he came to, and i think i bummed him out because after he was back to normal i was laughing, but more of dude that was the weirdest shit nervous feeling.
I also had a friend of mine do the same type thing except he tried to fight me while he was in the weirdo dimension. i had to hold him down until he knew who i was. jeez.

As far as tattooing goes, most Japanese, traditional style work is based on folk tales or religious/devotional stories or artwork.
So Japanese stuff is a mix of Buddhism and Shinto. Shinto being Japan's 'Old religion'.
Buddhism grew from a sect of Hinduism, in India. Many of the Buddhist tales involve long arduous journeys to spread the new religion to the people of the world, starting with Tibet, through China and it's surrounding countries, eventually to Japan. In India, Buddhism was mostly a small sect or cult but in China it took it's own flavour and was adapted to suit the climate, existing folk tales and myths. That version of Buddhism travelled to Japan and mixed with Shinto to evolve into it's own flavour of Japanese Buddhism. That's what we see in traditional Japanese tattoos. Many of the Japanese gods and mythical beasts have equivalent Chinese names, sometimes tattooers use the Chinese names.
There are very few people working in a strict Japanese traditional style. Most tattooers, especially outside of Japan tend to work in a more broad 'Asian' style (although they focus on the japanese style). Taking elements and stylistic touches from traditional devotional artwork from across Asia. As @Kev already mentioned most of the decorated skull tattoos are based on real decorated skulls from Tibet, like the example above. There are also smaller, more cartoon-looking skulls that could be mistaken for sugar skulls. They are often used as decoration around ritual instruments or artwork. You may have seen Filip use them as decoration on a larger skull's decorated cap.
Because other Asian countries don't have much history of decorative tattooing, it's not really possible to follow their example directly within tattooing. But the religious designs are awesome and people want large tattoos. That's why you find a mish-mash of broadly Asian influence wrapped in a mostly Japanese frame or background.
The interesting this is, the more you delve into the histories and myths of various distant and unconnected cultures, you notice many of the same elements. Swastikas, winged spirits and pyramids are good basic examples. (As a side note: it was cool to stand in a temple in Japan and notice Borneo style tribal patterns on the panel frames).
Jung called these 'Archetypes' (although this refers more to conceptual ideas and relationships, not graphic shapes) I call them 'fair game' for including in tattoos. It's my opinion that it's one of our jobs, as tattooers, to understand these elements to better apply them to tattoos and to guide the style and subject of our work more in line with historical or human tradition. Wether we admit our understanding or explain these archetypes to our clients is of no consequence.
This is one of the many reasons I'd rather tattoo a witch/crone holding a twig instead of a gent holding a pipe.
But that's another story. I don't want hippy clients asking me to channel their mystic history into their Celtic, Navaho, Saxon, Russian armband/finger tattoo. Nor do I want to stick an eye in a triangle on anything and everything.
I tried to shed light on this, but I think I just muddied the water more...

Just yesterday someone came in asking about a cover-up on his neck. I quoted him 200, he stands there for a minute, and says 180, so I told him 250. But wait he says, you just said 200. I did and you said 180, I don't haggle.
While I have no problem working with someone to keep it inside their budget, I refuse to haggle with price shoppers. He did set up an appointment though, for 200.

I just read all this. It's a wind up, isn't it? How to price a tattoo and deal with customers is stuff you learn before you even learn how to make a stencil.
However if this is serious, decide what the work is worth to you and if the other person doesn't think it's worth the same, that's ok, don't take it personal, maybe they're naive, maybe they're ignorant, or maybe they just can't afford it. If thgere is a sign on the door saying open for business, people are entitled to come in and try to do business.
Having a sign prominentley displayed stating the shop minimum and some examples of what you can expect for that minimum is a big help, for the customer and for the person who is selling the tattoos.
I don't want to insult ya by going any farther on this because I know you have been around a while.
Also, I'm not on here to tell anyone how to run a tattoo shop so they can open one up.
Most of the talk on here is art criticism, or how to heal up tattoos, what's in, what's out, who's cool, etc...and some of it is very interesting stuff, seriously.
I will say that a lot of the more artistic people are in the ha'penny place compared to the scratchers when it comes to hustle and street smarts.
If one man's niche is doin $20 tattoos ina basement and anothers is doing $200 an hour bodysuits, thats fine by me. It means there's a tattoo out there for everybody, and everyone can have a tattoo if they want one.
And before anyone forgets........Mike Roper tattooed in his bedroom for years, Filip Leu tattooed on the beach, Paulo Sulu'ape tattooed in a hut, Freddie Corbin tattooed in his apartment. And many of the tattooers the people on here look up to started out in their kitchens. And many of them tattooed cheap, or for free. Yea, freee, swallow that one whole.
For many of them, their first introduction to tattooing was getting tattooed by friends in their basements.
So, before we go demonising the "scratchers", getting tattooed on the cheap in a basement, kitchen or garage is just as valid as getting tattooed in a longhouse in Borneo. It probably costs about the same, has similar sterilisation, and the lines are probably equally shakey. Not to mention the spiritual/cultural/rite of passage significance of a ghetto kid getting a ghetto tattoo in a ghetto tattoo shop. At a ghetto price.
None of this is intended as a defence for idiots doing shit tattoos cheap or for arteests doing average tattoos at extortionate prices. It's just me saying that much as I can hustle, tattooing isn't a business for me, it's a practice and if I can pay my bills living this way, then that's a privilege and an honour. And a blessing. I'm grateful that I have a bit of talent and a bit of hustle. I take pride in my profession and I don't sell it short, especially not for money. I hate to not tattoo someone, but sometimes the tattoo they want isn't the tattoo they can afford, and I don't mean only in monetary terms, sometimes the persons ego is a bit big and they think they deserve more than the are entitled to. The same goes for the tattooers.
Anyway, I'm sick of typing, it's not my thing.

i feel ya. we have 8 other shops (!?!) within about a 5 block radius, so we deal with a ridiculous amount of "price shopping." it used to be hard for me to turn that work away, but over time it has become apparent that some people simply do not give a fuck about the quality of the tattoo and just want a bargain. a few learn the lesson, but many never do.

I fumbled about for the right term for these but thanks to my man Hogg i've now got it ,Capt Coleman dragons .Anyway this "did me up like a kipper " as the say over here .Hope this is cool to post...great new stuff from Valerie Vargas .

Got this little guy from a buddy of mine on Friday, filled a nice little awkward spot

Fire post, not the best pic but grim reaper by oliver pecker I got the other day

Richard Stell Panther done from one of his flash sets at Saints and Sinners in Charolton tx

Got this from El Monga today. Gotta be the gnarliest tattoo I've had. It's in a real awkward spot.
Underneath the inner bicep and then wrapped around part of the the back of the arm.

Got this little inner biceps number from the most excellent Mr Stewart Robson at the Brighton Convention yesterday:

I am exceedingly happy with it. Cheers Stewart.

Got this one yesterday from Valerie at Frith Street Tattoo.... Really stoked with it.

Birthday present from my old man today. Tattooed by Todd Noble

Cry Baby tattoo. Tattooed by Oliver Peck.

i can't stop watching this.

Red Ink hurts the most.

Some of the stories and half-truths are pretty amusing and they serve a purpose to protect or obscure some things that should remain at least a little esoteric.
What bugs me more than fables and tall-tales are when someone has half a useful piece of information and it swirls around in their busy little mind until they think they are a fountain of knowledge. They then spout that 'knowledge' to their friends or to people who are desperate for crumbs of information on the internet. But that's a different thing I guess.
I'm not of the opinion that everything should be laid out and explained to any yahoo that comes into a shop or internet forum. So I don't want to burst too many bubbles. But...
In may towns and cities in the north of England, many people believe if you get an 'X' tattooed on the sole of your foot you get it for free.
Variations even extend to: If you get the bottom of your foot tattooed totally black, you get any other tattooing free, for life, from any other tattooer, in the world.
As if more than 5 tattooers can agree on anything, never mind every tattooer in the world adhering to some secret code.
Visitors or customers in those shops were all totally bummed out when I told them that's not true. At least not the way I work.
Fucking nuts.