Lifting Thread;training for the tattooed warrior.

[Cork]

Clean bulking, you just eat how many calories above maintenance. (Beer does NOT count).

Rob

Is that sentence supposed to end in a question mark? The only difference between clean and dirty bulk is the food sources. Still ~500 cals over maintenance.

I agree, beer does not count.:cool:

[RoryQ]

Meeting a guy tomorrow who made a prowler for me. I'm not a believer in equipment as a 'silver bullet' to improve all your training.... But IMO prowlers come pretty close, for conditioning and body comp at least.

[tatB]

Signed up for a Intro to Crossfit class tomorrow morning...

[Cork]

Meeting a guy tomorrow who made a prowler for me. I'm not a believer in equipment as a 'silver bullet' to improve all your training.... But IMO prowlers come pretty close, for conditioning and body comp at least.

I had to give up my prowler. I moved in to a pretty quiet neighborhood, used it once, then felt guilty as hell for making so much noise.

Signed up for a Intro to Crossfit class tomorrow morning...

Good luck with that. I hope you get lucky and you have trainers that know what they are doing.

[tatB]

Good luck with that. I hope you get lucky and you have trainers that know what they are doing.

based on my research I think I picked a good place with qualified trainers.

[eisen777]

So around June I was in shit shape and I said I was going to get back into working out. I started running for cardio and free weights for muscles. My diet is mostly meat,fruit, veggies. Not because I really have a strict diet it just works for me and I over do it on sugar and when i eat carbs I over do it but really im trying to find a real balance.

So now im at around 3 5k runs a week and weights about 3 times a week. I can do all this at home or around my house. I went from no push ups to 12, no pull-ups to 1 or on a good day 2 and 60sec planks...I fell really good but I want more. Im doing more weight and started doing some low weight squats and deadlifts. I notice that while my cardio is really improved (i went from barely going a block in june to 5k's) but i feel like my weight training is a bit less improved and while ive lost alot of wieght im not seeing much build of definition going on (maybe im expecting too much too soon). I just want to know for someone like me thats really on his first 4 months of really trying to get in shape...whats a good suggested work out plan? What muscle groups do you pair up? What can I do to not hurt myslef but really push and maybe see some more gain/definition. Im open to try anything and really just seeing what people suggest. If I missed a good post in the past on this sorry.

[RoryQ]

@eisen777

An element of seeing muscle definition comes down to your levels of body fat. If your body fat, as a man, heads under 10% then you're going towards a very defined look, provided the muscle is there underneath to expose. Depending on age, where you began from, training and diet, however, it's possible to train a fair bit and build muscle without ever getting to the stage where you are going to look like a fitness magazine cover model (probably a lot of those guys don't walk around like that most of the year either - they probably cut for the shoot).

If you managed to gain lean muscle mass, however, whilst your body fat levels stay more or less the same or is still reducing you obviously are going to look better to a considerable extent, and if you're a relative novice then you can make a lot of progress pretty quick. Things like posture can improve as well, which feeds into it too.

Someone else might be able to comment more on the 5ks you're running. There's a school of thought that if you want to bias towards lifting weights and gaining muscle for a little bit then you should cut back on the intermediate distance runs for a while, and just focus on lifting (maybe with some shorter metabolic conditioning work instead, like 1-2 sessions a week of something like sprints or a circuit). The other side of it is that some 5k runs might not be that taxing, depending on pace, and if your diet is good and you're young maybe you can recover fine from them. Further down the road there might come a point to the contrary, where it is too taxing on top of lifting.

As far as lifting goes, in general you'll get a lot more bang for buck with compound multi-joint exercises. Squats, deadlift, bench, pull-up, row, military press etc. Can't go too far wrong. If you want to lift several days a week and cut back on the running you could look at programming like Starting Strength, 5x5, Stronglifts, West Side for skinny bastards or similar (google them for the programming and explanations). Probably a good idea to get a form check from someone who knows what they're about on your squat and deadlift if you haven't already.

[eisen777]

@eisen777

An element of seeing muscle definition comes down to your levels of body fat. If your body fat, as a man, heads under 10% then you're going towards a very defined look, provided the muscle is there underneath to expose. Depending on age, where you began from, training and diet, however, it's possible to train a fair bit and build muscle without ever getting to the stage where you are going to look like a fitness magazine cover model (probably a lot of those guys don't walk around like that most of the year either - they probably cut for the shoot).

If you managed to gain lean muscle mass, however, whilst your body fat levels stay more or less the same or is still reducing you obviously are going to look better to a considerable extent, and if you're a relative novice then you can make a lot of progress pretty quick. Things like posture can improve as well, which feeds into it too.

Someone else might be able to comment more on the 5ks you're running. There's a school of thought that if you want to bias towards lifting weights and gaining muscle for a little bit then you should cut back on the intermediate distance runs for a while, and just focus on lifting (maybe with some shorter metabolic conditioning work instead, like 1-2 sessions a week of something like sprints or a circuit). The other side of it is that some 5k runs might not be that taxing, depending on pace, and if your diet is good and you're young maybe you can recover fine from them. Further down the road there might come a point to the contrary, where it is too taxing on top of lifting.

As far as lifting goes, in general you'll get a lot more bang for buck with compound multi-joint exercises. Squats, deadlift, bench, pull-up, row, military press etc. Can't go too far wrong. If you want to lift several days a week and cut back on the running you could look at programming like Starting Strength, 5x5, Stronglifts, West Side for skinny bastards or similar (google them for the programming and explanations). Probably a good idea to get a form check from someone who knows what they're about on your squat and deadlift if you haven't already.

Thanks for all of this @RoryQ. Usually I don't run and do weights the same day cause a 5k after work usually feels great but basically puts an end to my day.( A early 5k wakes e up on the other hand) The other 3 days I lift. I had a form check on squats a while ago and all my current deadlifts are low weight and form focused. I have a friend going to help me work the kinks out soon. I am really into keeping trying to keep good form but I'm planning on periodically asking for help ESP with new routines. The multi joint exercises is def what I'm working toward and glad I'm hearing you say that because they kick my ass and seem to Work the best. I will read up on those links. I think I've decided to focus more in cardio and weight loss from now till the winter(still lifting but at a moderate/easy increase). Once winter hits ill do outdoor activity and some cardio at the gym (college gym at the university I work at.....crowded meat market but free) but really focus on more weight training and building muscles and hope with more weight loss see more definition. I'm really happy that I'm finally at the point I enjoy this and it's hard but not torture. My wife is doing all this with me and that helps.

Anyone have a view on whey protein? My diet is all protein, veg, fruit some dairy and fat but I started whey after lifting and I think it helps with recovery but I can't tell if I just like it cause I do really like the taste.

[Scott R]

@eisen777 whey after an anaerobic workout is a solid fast choice. If your getting enough protein in your diet you probably do not need whey at any other time.

The reason why whey is popular after workouts is because of its fast assimilation. I personally enjoy a glass of chocolate milk post workout , but whey is probably what the majority of weightlifters supplement with.

[CABS]

I only want to get fit when it's time to get my stomach tattooed. I'm crazy.

[beez]

Signed up for a Intro to Crossfit class tomorrow morning...

I started crossfit last feb - I love it!! And I also researched and visited a couple of places to vet the trainers and make sure they knew what they were doing before signing up. I'd heard a lot of horror stories and didn't want to put myself in a bad situation where I would be guaranteed injury or repeated bad programming.

I had a 3 month break that due to a foot injury (fell down the stairs walking the dog early morning, doh!) and then some tattoo healing I needed to get out of the way :p. I just started again last week and it feels so good! In a barely walking sorta way ;).

I'm also - and I think I it was a post from @hogg where I first learned this term - a "paleotard" :p. but not aggro about it! Clean eating feels good. (+1 for clean bulk!).

Anyway. Hope you're having an awesome experience. My box (ahahahaha) offers other classes in addition to straight crossfit, which is a nice bonus and a good indicator that they haven't drank the straight crossfit kool aid. Which is a good thing! I visited a box in OK that was like one big injury-inducing warning system. (I did NOT work out there).

If you feel like nerding out...you have a friend in me!

[tatB]

I started crossfit last feb - I love it!! And I also researched and visited a couple of places to vet the trainers and make sure they knew what they were doing before signing up. I'd heard a lot of horror stories and didn't want to put myself in a bad situation where I would be guaranteed injury or repeated bad programming.

I had a 3 month break that due to a foot injury (fell down the stairs walking the dog early morning, doh!) and then some tattoo healing I needed to get out of the way :p. I just started again last week and it feels so good! In a barely walking sorta way ;).

I'm also - and I think I it was a post from @hogg where I first learned this term - a "paleotard" :p. but not aggro about it! Clean eating feels good. (+1 for clean bulk!).

Anyway. Hope you're having an awesome experience. My box (ahahahaha) offers other classes in addition to straight crossfit, which is a nice bonus and a good indicator that they haven't drank the straight crossfit kool aid. Which is a good thing! I visited a box in OK that was like one big injury-inducing warning system. (I did NOT work out there).

If you feel like nerding out...you have a friend in me!

The intro-class went very well. I'm going to sign up for the 9 session beginner course to learn all the fundamental lifts and movements in November. I would do the October course but I have a tattoo appointment next week that would side line me for a week for healing.

[beez]

The intro-class went very well. I'm going to sign up for the 9 session beginner course to learn all the fundamental lifts and movements in November. I would do the October course but I have a tattoo appointment next week that would side line me for a week for healing.

Haha, I had the same situation when I started! And I've been out quite a bit letting my tattoos heal. Such is life. (Such is AWESOME life, that it's mostly tattoo healing that sidelines me).

Glad the class went very well!

[RoryQ]

I think I was about the third Irish person to get certified in CrossFit, far as I know. It was the first certification weekend they did outside the US that wasn't on a military base. My claim to infamy... I was big into it for a few years.

I think if your box is good then doing it can be a good way to get exposure to a lot of different training in a short space of time... Gymnastics, Olympic lifting, kettlebells... The nutritional advice is also good, IMO (although when I was in it was before Robb Wolfe got booted).

Just don't injure yourself - beware the kool aid. No ones' Achilles' tendon is designed for high rep box jumps.

[fourtotheflush]

Haven't really been on here much since getting my chest piece done a while back.

But I was in real bad shape over the winter - blessing into the spring.

I did c25k - couch to 5k to snap me back into it. I've run a few races.

I started lifting again in June and wonder why I stopped after getting married - and having kids!

I'm focused on cardio/fat loss while maintaining strength and fitness.

I also started a Paleo diet in Sept that has really worked out well for me and I'm going to keep up with it.

My routine is basically consistently inconsistent. Typically on week 1 I can get in 4 good workouts and week 2 I can get in 6. On week 1 I will mix in some cardio or home workout that I can hit from the living room w the kids milling about.

I have just moved from a six day split - every muscle group twice per week to a 4 day split - every muscle group once with a little more intensity.

Day 1 chest - Tri

Day 2 back - Bi

Off day

Day 3 legs abs

Day 4 shoulders - traps

Rest / rest

On rest and off days I do cardio and some Addl abs.

I will say bodybuilding.com has a great 12 week program to go from noob to knowledgeable!

Folks w questions it is a great resource!

I'll be checking in more frequently!

[heathenist]

Thanks for all of this @RoryQ. Usually I don't run and do weights the same day cause a 5k after work usually feels great but basically puts an end to my day.( A early 5k wakes e up on the other hand) The other 3 days I lift. I had a form check on squats a while ago and all my current deadlifts are low weight and form focused. I have a friend going to help me work the kinks out soon. I am really into keeping trying to keep good form but I'm planning on periodically asking for help ESP with new routines. The multi joint exercises is def what I'm working toward and glad I'm hearing you say that because they kick my ass and seem to Work the best. I will read up on those links. I think I've decided to focus more in cardio and weight loss from now till the winter(still lifting but at a moderate/easy increase). Once winter hits ill do outdoor activity and some cardio at the gym (college gym at the university I work at.....crowded meat market but free) but really focus on more weight training and building muscles and hope with more weight loss see more definition. I'm really happy that I'm finally at the point I enjoy this and it's hard but not torture. My wife is doing all this with me and that helps.

Anyone have a view on whey protein? My diet is all protein, veg, fruit some dairy and fat but I started whey after lifting and I think it helps with recovery but I can't tell if I just like it cause I do really like the taste.

I'll second his advice, and actually it's almost exactly what I was going to post. I highly recommend stronglifts, but I've heard good things about all of those. Gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time can be pretty tricky. Rather than doing 5ks, look into HIIT training, basically uses intervals of intense cardio (like sprinting), and is much better for burning fat than just doing steady paced 5ks. As far as diet goes, I've never done it and I don't understand it at all, but I've heard good things about carb backloading. This diet probably isn't something that is sustainable long term, but from what I hear it can be good for gaining muscle while losing weight (and still getting to eat junk food). I don't really know, but might at least be worth looking into.

- - - Updated - - -

Haven't really been on here much since getting my chest piece done a while back.

But I was in real bad shape over the winter - blessing into the spring.

I did c25k - couch to 5k to snap me back into it. I've run a few races.

I started lifting again in June and wonder why I stopped after getting married - and having kids!

I'm focused on cardio/fat loss while maintaining strength and fitness.

I also started a Paleo diet in Sept that has really worked out well for me and I'm going to keep up with it.

My routine is basically consistently inconsistent. Typically on week 1 I can get in 4 good workouts and week 2 I can get in 6. On week 1 I will mix in some cardio or home workout that I can hit from the living room w the kids milling about.

I have just moved from a six day split - every muscle group twice per week to a 4 day split - every muscle group once with a little more intensity.

Day 1 chest - Tri

Day 2 back - Bi

Off day

Day 3 legs abs

Day 4 shoulders - traps

Rest / rest

On rest and off days I do cardio and some Addl abs.

I will say bodybuilding.com has a great 12 week program to go from noob to knowledgeable!

Folks w questions it is a great resource!

I'll be checking in more frequently!

I'll never understand pairing shoulders and traps. Shoulders are part of your arms, traps are part of your back, why wouldn't you train them on that day? Maybe I'm missing something.

[eisen777]

After spending a long time finding cheap and quality power racks and oly barbell/weights I got my set up ready in my new garage and Im on week 6 of stronglifts. My legs you can REALLY see some muscle build. Trying to eat well and doing a pretty good job but the holidays sucked and the drop off of cardio for the winter had me gain some weight back but not all I lost. After I hit my goals with stronglifts/starting strength Im looking at 5/3/1 but in a week or two Im first going to add 2 hiit days that basicly have me doing 5-10 mins and thats it (or I may add at the end of a lift). Trying to burn of some fat while still eating big/clean to build

[hogg]

After spending a long time finding cheap and quality power racks and oly barbell/weights I got my set up ready in my new garage and Im on week 6 of stronglifts. My legs you can REALLY see some muscle build. Trying to eat well and doing a pretty good job but the holidays sucked and the drop off of cardio for the winter had me gain some weight back but not all I lost. After I hit my goals with stronglifts/starting strength Im looking at 5/3/1 but in a week or two Im first going to add 2 hiit days that basicly have me doing 5-10 mins and thats it (or I may add at the end of a lift). Trying to burn of some fat while still eating big/clean to build

Having your own home setup is a GREAT investment. I've put together a home gym in my basement strictly with Craigslist finds. And I absolutely love 5/3/1. Been running it for years.

[RoryQ]

I was just thinking about this thread a few days ago.... It doesn't deserve to die!

I'm doing Westside for Skinny Bastards again, on the third week. Been doing prowler pushes or sled drags 2-3 times a week for conditioning, but not much, I'm horribly de-conditioned.

I like home training too, but I only go through a few weeks of it before I start to get cabin fever and crave going to a gym full of people. Then I go to a gym, get angry at people curling in the squat rack while wearing parachute pants and backwards caps, realise that I am a mysanthrope and I go back to my house for another cycle of hermit training.

[Cork]

I went the ways of a home gym mid 2013. I've had some slow gains because I had to readjust for so much tattoo healing, but I do want to say that I FINALLY hit a huge milestone and I put my body weight overhead with a slight push press. And anyone who's been keeping up with my back piece progress has seen dat ass and knows that it must mean I put up a good amount of weight, haha. For how long I've been training, I should have had 3x BW by now, but hey, a PR is a PR and I'm happy about it,

[hogg]

For how long I've been training, I should have had 3x BW by now, but hey, a PR is a PR and I'm happy about it,

A BW overhead is a lifelong goal for a lot of lifters, so take your false humility and dangle. :eek:

:D

[Cork]

Aw don't play me like that! You can do bodyweight from your damn knees.

[hogg]

Aw don't play me like that! You can do bodyweight from your damn knees.

I weigh more than 135, thank you. ;)

[eisen777]

As a bigger (overweight) guy should I be trying to get my squats to reach 1.5 current body weight? I mean ok, after a while training then sure. But as a beginner before I move to a 5/3/1 program whats reasonable squat,bench,DL goals for a beginner?? I weigh 250 but would like to eventually either get down to 230-240 with fat loss but will take 250 if im more muscle then fat. Right now squating 174 and moved to 3x5 for a bit instead of 5x5 but may go back to 5x5. Form has been checked multiple times...no one is ALWAYS perfect but ive done a good job always working on it and have pretty good form overall

[RoryQ]

As a bigger (overweight) guy should I be trying to get my squats to reach 1.5 current body weight? I mean ok, after a while training then sure. But as a beginner before I move to a 5/3/1 program whats reasonable squat,bench,DL goals for a beginner?? I weigh 250 but would like to eventually either get down to 230-240 with fat loss but will take 250 if im more muscle then fat. Right now squating 174 and moved to 3x5 for a bit instead of 5x5 but may go back to 5x5. Form has been checked multiple times...no one is ALWAYS perfect but ive done a good job always working on it and have pretty good form overall

In my opinion, I would still strive for:-

Twice Body weight deadlift

One and a half times Body weight squat

Body weight bench

strict body weight pull ups ... A decent amount, whatever that is, although body weight is a factor here.

Irrespective of weight I think these are achievable benchmarks for someone to reasonably expect to achieve in a couple of years, bar injury.

Dan John has some good stuff on this...

I've never done 5/3/1 but I think most people seem to hit the barbell goals easily enough with something like 5x5 or Starting Strength.

You can probably make linear progress right up to them, by turning up and just adding weight in increments. I hit those targets just doing CrossFit, which is not exactly a strength biased program.