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I disagree that there needs to be room here for critical opinions and saying what we don't like about any particular tattooer's work, basically because I think most of us are ignorant about tattoos. What's that phrase that I think comes from Brooklyn Blackie? Don't look for faults in things you don't understand? Most of us here, myself included, understand very little. I'm not going to name names here because it isn't important, but I was getting tattooed once and my tattooer was talking with one of his colleagues--both tremendous tattooers in their own right--about another tattooer that they both admire and how he tattoos in such a way that the tattoo isn't going to look quite right until it's settled into the skin a couple of years. This guy is making tattoos for the long haul, that are going to look great throughout the person's life, and not just on an Instagram photo when they're brand new. That, for me, was one of many humbling moments I've had while getting tattooed where I understood how little I actually knew. Things like this are a large reason why I said earlier that we shouldn't base our opinions on photos alone. I don't want this to be a place where we're going on about flaws in this tattooers or that tattooers work when they may not even be flaws at all. This is also making me think of the Invisible podcast with Seth Ciferri when he talks about getting shit from people about things that were said on the Read Street Forum. I'm grateful to Scott for providing this space that has been so enriching and has been so helpful in how I get tattooed that I don't want him to have the grief of tattooers going up to him and giving him shit about why people are talking garbage about their tattoos on his forum.

Dave Regan added some maple leaves to the namakubi he put above my knee at the beginning of July. I apologize for the awful day after picture. I really can't sing Dave's praises enough. He's a talented and funny fellow that makes getting tattooed a joy.

I didn't know you could get banned for sexting...

This thread has been fantastic, really great discussion so far, thanks everyone for adding your thoughts! After I read the bulk of it I had to jet off to work so I didn't have time to make a cogent reply until now, hopefully some of my thoughts have survived through the past few days of working. Anyways, these are my thoughts on the subject as a client relatively new to tattoos. Though I'd always been a fan of tattoos, I got a pretty late start on my "collection" so to speak, I loved the look of tattoos but throughout my teens and early 20s any spare cent went to drugs and booze so actually getting tattooed was fiscally impossible. I got sober, met some people with rad tattoos in and out of the program, and really started thinking about it again, I visited a bunch of trashy shops throughout the greater Colorado Springs area, and found nothing appealing in my search. I've always been a bit of a collector and really dig researching and finding the best version of whatever it is I'm looking for. I eventually found LST which I credit for helping me learn what makes a good tattoo, and really helping shape my tastes. You all have been lifesavers! Sorry for the long personal discourse but I feel it's a bit relevant to the rest of the post. So after two years of scoring the forum for information, flipping through instagram a few times a day, following an unmanageable amount of accounts on said instagram, I finally took the plunge and booked an appointment with Marie Sena after I had seen her name on the list of artists working at a then new shop (Dedication Tattoo) down in Denver. Her style really spoke to me, I wasn't really familiar with her as a "name" in the tattoo game, maybe read about her on here once or twice but I feel extremely lucky to have such a wonderful first tattoo from such a fantastic person. I never really set out to be the guy who never gets tattooed by the same person twice, but as of yet that's how it's turning out. I am wary of being perceived as some sort of "starfucker" as @Pugilist put it, but with Denver being so centrally located in this country I am presented with a lot of great opportunities via guest spots to get work from great tattooers! How am I going to pass up a chance to get tattooed by Adam Shrewsbury while he's in town for a couple days, he doesn't even make tattoos regularly when he's home! Chad's going to be here in a couple weeks? Well I'd better find a way to stack some cash because I won't let myself miss out on that. I have a list in my head of people I'd love to get work from, some may be big names, but it's all because their work speaks to me in ways that I can't really quantify, I don't want the most star-studded skin, I just want stuff that makes me happy when I look in the mirror. Besides the power of the imagery, it really is all about the experience though. Any time I've been tattooed by someone with a "big name" they have been some of the realest, most down to earth people I've met. Jeff Zuck is a gentleman and a scholar, Marie, as I said earlier, literally one of the nicest people I've ever met. Adam is the most down to earth dude, you can just tell how grateful he is to be spending his life making rad art for people. Every tattoo that I've seen Chad put out has blown my mind, and I was pleasantly surprised to see how humble he was, making sure the other guys in the shop thought the composition was solid on his sketch, ready to wipe it all away and start over if Joe didn't like something about it. Myke Chamber seems to get a bit of grief around here, maybe he's too self-promotional, his drawings are simplistic, but his message in all the interviews is a story of hope for those of us struggling with addiction, and I could tell that he was really grateful for his position in life. Now, @mmikaoj, again, I appreciate you starting this thread, the discussion has been really great! You caught enough flak for what you said about Deutsche, Shige, and Horiyoshi III, but I had to jump in and defend Walter McDonald! I know that some of his tattoos look a little off, definitely not what anyone would call perfect, but goddammit they are fucking tattoo magic in the flesh! That man is one of the best human beings I've had the pleasure of meeting, it's impossible to imagine him without a smile on his face. His shop is beautiful, flash from floor to ceiling, exactly what you picture in your head when you think "tattoo shop," not to mention that he's mostly responsible for me and the rest of the state being so spoiled for choice when it comes to guest artists on a regular basis. Walter is the coolest and I can't wait to get a tattoo from him. Sorry about the rambling, hope I didn't stray too far from what I was trying to get across.

I've seen work from "name" artists that wasn't the greatest, but I wouldn't say any of them have "lost" it. They are all human and have off days. I used to get bent out of shape if I noticed anything on a tattoo what wasn't perfect, but now I step back and look at the piece as a whole. It would be ridiculous to write off a whole suit based on a couple blow outs/poorly healed shading here and there. I'm in the same boat as @Graeme , I've travelled for tattoos based on how the work connects with me, and how the interaction was with the artist themselves. Skill is irrelevant if the person is an asshole. That being said, Horiyoshi III finished this piece up in July. Can't say I'd object to being the owner!

To get back to the questions originally asked, I'm not sure that any of us can really be honest about why we want a certain design or why we want a specific person to put it on us (I believe in the unconscious). For me, I usually decide I want a certain design, then think about who does that design in the way that I like most. (I like to think that) I'm not a sucker for big names, but I do think I am a sucker for "authenticity" and "soulfulness." For me, some tattooers and their works have an ineffable draw that goes beyond form or technical proficiency. Certainly, relatively unknown tattooers could possess that quality, but it's less likely that I would find out about them. In regards to masters and their successors, hopefully the successors would be doing something new or different enough to be recognized for their own work. As far as the experience of getting tattooed, the tricky thing is that you never know until after the fact. I am, of course, more compelled to go back to people I enjoyed getting tattooed by and talking to than not. It's such an intense experience getting tattooed that I couldn't imagine going back to someone I didn't enjoy regardless of their reputation or skill.

I'll read this whole thread tomorrow.....but this pretty much sums it all up! I have been tattooed by several "legends" as you call them......but most of these people are only legends in your mind.....in their minds they are just tattooers who appreciate that so many people are stoked to be tattooed by them! I think you would be surprised by how grounded a lot of these people really are! I personally decided about 10 years ago i was going to concentrate on getting tattooed by tattooers who have 30+ years in the craft....leaning toward the 40+ year guys and gals! Some of them you may have heard of and others you may not have heard of.....but they put their time in and started tattooing in a time where tattoos really weren't socially acceptable and the "in" thing to do! Some of their work might not be the most technical or most innovative BUT that shit doesn't matter to me....I have really solid work on me that has held up 20+ years and it still looks better than a lot of people's 10 year old tattoos! To each his/her own though....that's how I look at it all! I'll never say anyone has lost it though! Tattooing is a journey.....just like life! ;)

Here they are (stolen from her instagram)! By Nora Townsend of Magnetic North Tattoo in Burlington, VT. So blown away by the end result and love how big (and low :eek:!) we went. Nora is so amazing, and it was refreshing to talk candidly about the tattoo industry and all our favorite artists. She's apparently heavily influenced by Wendy Pham... kickass! I was so impressed how knowledgeable a small town shop in the middle of nowhere VT can be. One of the co-owners of the shop showed me an old in-progress O'Donnell piece, soo good. Made me miss being in NYC, but very relieved to have a solid shop down the street from me!

Hey, you don't want a Fudo. They are WAY overplayed. Why don't you be original instead? You should think about getting something with meaning rather than just picking something out of some old Japanese mythology.

Things I just remembered: this board has an "ignore user" function! @mmikaoj - again, I am so impressed by your engagement in this discussion despite how prickly it's been. Here's to civil disagreement. Also, I hadn't considered how differing languages might make for tricky discussion. Good point. @CultExciter - he didn't sell you out, your chemistry is just too strong to be ignored!

I love the aesthetics of books. Walls covered in bookshelves are the greatest thing ever. Homes should look like libraries.

This isn't now but these were taken during my last session with Horitoshi I. The last pic was my view of the ceiling while getting tattooed.

This is my little lady, Blue. She moved in last summer when she was around 6-7 mths old. Couldn't ask for a better snuggle buddy.

I've now just come to the sad realisation that I've wasted all these years, endured all this pain suiting down for nothing!!! I should have just slammed hands, forearms and neck pipe. "Booze, Blues & Tattoos"

according to my spreadsheet the countdown to appointment #1 is 120 days and possibly a quick consult for it while i'm in NY at the end of this month

That would be nice, but I doubt any libraries in the communities I've lived in (less than 5000, down to less than 1000) would be stocking limited edition tattoo books. :p The thought of sharing said books with the assholes in an apartment complex makes me shudder! Most people don't properly look after stuff like books and CDs when they own them, let alone if it isn't theirs!

oh ya ! this is my goof ! she is the love of my life, . .

Yeah, I agree that all art is subject to criticism, but continuing from what @Graeme said, not everyone is a good critic. Welcome to the trouble with the internet - where everyone who can type is seen as having an equal opinion. I also think it's very important to distinguish between taste (e.g. X tattooer's stuff isn't for me, because I prefer this other style) and critique (e.g. X tattooer has "lost it" and no longer makes solid tattoos). The former is of course something we all can and should do--figure out what appeals to us and why--while the latter is something that requires much more knowledge than just what I find personally appealing. No one is saying we all have to love the same things, but rather that it is dangerous to conflate what we like with what's objectively good, and to think we're assessing tattoos based on the latter when not only is that not the case, but we're all still climbing the steep learning curve of understanding that at all.

Great post @exume, thanks for sharing! In my defense I have to say that I didn't say anything about Shige. It was someone else who said he had better artists at his local shop... (still want to know where that is) Also, I think I did say that I like some of Walter McDonalds stuff a lot (?), but that I was not as into how rough and loose his style is. His ideas, design and concepts are often way cool if you ask me! In the end, as with any art, it's a matter of preference. Someone mentioned that Chad Koeplinger tattoos in a looser style and he's in the bunch I'd consider favorite tattooers BUT I don't like the stuff that's very loose (yet). I think this could be a journey in itself, to learn to appriciate the rawness of things. A parallel could be to someone who gets into punk music by listening to, say, Bad Religion. After some years this persons taste might have refined/degraded (depending on you perspective) to the point where Discharge is his/hers favorite band, if you see the resemblence. I think it can be an obstacle to experience and enjoyment of any art form to judge it on scales of trashy - clean, dark - positive, energetic - static, and so on. There's no way to quantify the tattoo mojo and soul that is the most important ingredient. I don't know. For me tattoos are still mostly a visual thing and sometimes used to imprint/express an idea/feeling/concept I feel strongly about. I don't doubt that Walter has a smile on his face even when sleeping and that Eddy is one of the raddest guys, that Spotlight has bullet holes in the flash or whatever. Those are great things! But I am not sure that, for me, this would help me choose and artist to get work from. For some people it probably does, and I'm not going to say who is right or wrong in this. Tattoo culture is not a sport, I think it's totally fine that people have strongly oposing ideas and taste preference and I think it's fun and evolving in it's own to discuss without having to decide who is winning an argument. @Pugilist: I agree, it's always important to think twice about what you set in stone publicly (or set in HTML, in this case) And I absolutely think we should all try to be fair and not fall into gossip and trash talk. However, just because it's somebody's livelihood doesn't make it immune to criticism, in my opinion. One thing I like about this culture is that is participatory. You can't really be on the sidelines and still enjoy it (well you can watch Miami INK, but that's another story) Even getting just one tattoo means you have to make an active effort and become a, if tiny and shortlived, part of it. And I think one of the beautiful things is that it's not very hierarchical, no thrones of professional art critics who dictates what to think and feel about tattoos, what's good and who is not. I think there needs to be room for discussion, in a polite and civilized way about things we/you/I don't like and to voice some critical oppinions about people's work too. I am sure Deutsche has the kind of following where he's legacy will continue to grow still (and I also think he deserves it, I hope I made that clear). I also hope that people can make up their own minds and trust their own taste. I hope we don't get threads where the sole purpose is to talk shit about somebody's work, that would be really unfair and a lowmark for the forum. In this case it made for some interesting arguments that also lead to other ideas and perspectives comming through. As long as the tone is good and people behave I think it's benificial for everyone that we're not only giving eachother high 5's in the Latest Tattoo Lowdown-thread and joining into the choir whenever a respected tattooers name is mentioned. But yeah, thanks for pointing it out! "Think before you post!" is a good moto

Nothing better to do on a sunny Sunday afternoon than hang out in the park with this goof:

@CultExciter awwww shit gurl :o So I know the Horiyoshi III thing had been dropped, but I've been blessed enough to see 3 of his tattoos in person and they are OUT OF FUCKING CONTROL. One of them is a peony on the forearm, want to know what sort of stencil he used? A square. Drawn on with a sharpie. Let's not forget that the man is in his 70s. Ahem, anyway Tim Lehi is a great example of a very loose tattooer who delivers with power every time. And also, to touch on the statement that Stuart Cripwell has gone the more wonky route when he could have been cleaner, I'll just say this. After a certain period of experience in tattooing, your style reflects your natural drawing. Your early years are largely about learning how to put the tattoo in, and then once you kinda figure that out, you can bend the rules of tattooing to suit the sort of art that you want to make. So to me it seems kinda silly to say "oh he could have done this but instead he chose to do this," when I think most of us are just trying to make tattoos that we think are awesome.

Lynch mob on the way. Eddy Deutsche is in my top 5 favorite tattooers of all time. I'm getting to the point where I don't care who has a bigger name or the most Instagram followers. People like Mike Adams and Amanda Wachob have thousands upon thousands of followers but I could care less about their work. (YES, I AM PUBLICLY SHIT TALKING.) I'll take Mike Roper over just about anyone everyday. Edit; I'll also take Joel Long, Mike Dorsey, Andrew Conner, Mike Rennie, Will Lollie, Virginia Elwood, Bart Bingham, John Henry Gloyne, Josh Arment, Dave Regan, Matt Brotka, Katie Davis, Ishmael Johnson, John Rippey, Eric Brooks, Jason Phillips, Carolyn LeBourgeois, Sean Perkinson, Chuck Kuhler, Aaron Coleman, Josh Brown, and a gazillion other people who are well known or completely unknown that kill it constantly. Tattooing is a rich community. There are so many people that do good things that it is impossible to narrow things down like people were able to 20-30-40 years ago. There used to be like 2 conventions a year, and now there is one every weekend. I suppose what I am saying echoes what @CABS had to say. The experience and the radness of the person will trump just about everything. I'm a young tattooer, and I fully realize I'm not very good at this right now, so I will do my best to make sure my friends get a cool experience and can always look at those blownout lines and holidays and smile saying "That was a good day."

if i fits...i sits

Too much brain consumption in this thread for me to eloquently add to it... However, @mmikaoj if it helps, I totally understood what you said in your original post. I think everyone (yourself included) made valid points on the discussion of old tattooers. Personally, I lean towards up and coming with the pipe dream that they may be the Eddy Deutsche's or Horiyoshi III's of the future. Right?! And @hatchettjack I don't think you get what tattooing means to a lot of the folks on here.

@BrianH Thank you! Thought it would be :) @Pleadco @SeeSea Thank you for welcoming me!

Not now, maybe not ever. Why would you get tattooed on your back anyway, you'll never see it, and unless you plan on spending most of your time shirtless, neither will anybody else.

I didn't know Japanese work only went down in Asian countries... here I was, safe with the knowledge that there's way more people doing large scale Japanese work in America and Europe, only to have that crushed. Looks like the Fudo on my back down the line is going to be way harder to get.

@Pugilist HE WASN'T SUPPOSED TO TELL ANYONE!!!

Met with Will Lollie of Empire Tattoo yesterday. Working on a Foo Dog sleeve. Sketch to be ready in couple of weeks. Hopefully get started on tattoo in mid November.

Next tattoo is in December starting my full back piece (shoulders down to knees) with Scott Duncan of Sugar Shack. I haven't been tattooed in almost two years since picking up a couple from Mario Desa. Feeling a little on the wuss side of things by being both extremely nervous and excited to start my back.

We've been blaming it on that reeeaalllly smart squirrel who spends hours practicing his gymnastic skills at the bird feeder. But no... "

@cvportagee Cool!! I look forward to meeting you. What did you get from Horitomo, and what are you getting from Jill? Ha, I just heard the news @hogg! Norwegians gonna be all up in your hood soon. Post 1000 ya'll!

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and arguement than others" -Douglas Adams (in reference to some of the discussions of a few of the older generation) As for the collector idea being a positive or a negative, the same could be said for any other type of collection. We all knew that one guy who had $3,000 worth of guitars and amps, but couldn't play to save his life... or the guy with an original pressing of some band's album that he actually can't tell you a thing about. Some people get it and seek it for that reason. Some people seek it because they want to seem like they get it, and they're supposed to. For a personal story... my first two favorite tattooers (as in could see their work and know it was theirs' somehow) were Steve Byrne and Chris O'Donnell. Two years in a row I've gotten tattooed at the West Texas Convention. The first year, Steve Byrne stopped tattooing and asked myself and my coworker if we had any questions, and if we did to ask him, since Dreyfuss wasn't in yet. And he did the same for everyone that came by, including answering questions while tattooing. When I got my hand tattooed by him this year, he asked me various questions, asked how I enjoyed entering my second year as a tattooer after it came up, told me about why he has regular roses and not Tudor/geometric roses on his hands, made Gorilla Biscuits and CIV lyric jokes with me about my Civ appointment the next day ("I don't want him to mess up... I better stand still." "I bet you can't wait one minute more for it, huh?"), and was nicer than almost anyone I've met in any circumstance. He also easily took the stress of the convention, the poor lighting (Thomas Hooper broke his lamp the night before), and dealing with potential clients or box-set purchasers the whole time. And the next day, he saw me walking around, called out to me, and asked if I had a travel lightpad, before suggesting I get one since I didn't. And asked how my dad liked his new rose tattoo from Bobby Padron a little later. My right hand is absolutely my favorite tattoo, not just because of who did it and what it represents, but also all of those aspects about the experience. When I was looking at his booth when he wasn't there, Forrest Cavacco yelled from 50 feet away that, if I had questions, to come see him. Adam Hays had me check out the Lando tattoo he was doing when I bought prints from him, since he figured I liked Star Wars from what I was buying. Ben Cheese and Clayton James have been among the nicest people I've talked to as well, even when we couldn't afford to get tattooed and just grabbed prints from them. I plan on getting tattooed by Ben this February when we go. That being said, I stood at a few people's tables for almost 15 or 20 minutes, even when they were taking an Instagram break mid-tattoo, waiting to buy a shirt. After they had looked and made eye-contact me. And ignored everyone else that was there, even the person in their chair. I unfollowed a few very well known folks on IG and decided I'd take my business to others. At least a quick "Hey man, I'm kinda busy, can you give me X minutes" would have made all of the difference. I'd imagine there are lots of folks who would still throw money at them and get whatever would get the most likes on IG or Tumblr, but that's what separates the mindsets, as everyone here has already explained in was far less rambling, far more concise, and far less fanboy-ish. EDIT: Slight addendum... my hand has a few blow outs. One spot took over a month to fully heal. A few lines are a bit thin in places compared to the overall average. One line on a wave between my fingers has a 1/16" gap that doesn't connect. But it is absolutely my favorite tattoo.

I've really enjoyed reading this thread so far. I think a few things are happening here: - If we're talking about people who take a collector's approach to getting tattooed (and I don't necessarily mean that in a negative way), maybe interest in big names could be seen as roughly similar to getting books or music that are fairly "correct" but express little about a person. I know I own a lot of music like this, but I don't regret having it because it's helped me seperate what I like from what I'm supposed to like (and may still appreciate somewhat, but that doesn't viscerally excite me like a favorite album or novel). I think this is a phase that many folks need to go through when they discover a new interest but haven't really begun to inhabit it yet. -Most of us who aren't tattooers always need to spend money on this hobby (or whatever word you want to use). We're not trading art. Maybe there's an anxiety that this isn't any different from purchasing other things, even though it's a lot more intimate. Are my tattoos ultimately just an expensive suit? Am I just buying my way into something? I think there's also a point at which "good taste" becomes suffocating. I hope this makes sense and that it isn't just rambling. A lot of this is overthinking and I try not to worry about it and to just get what excites me. I can't control how it comes across to others, and you can tie yourself in knots thinking about your own motivations.

OMG can we please start that rumour?

My cat was judging my beverage of choice the other night. (A good many of you have already seen this.)

I Had 3 hours of FUN today !! Previous sitting ! This was the first sitting, now I had 3, all about 3 hours at a time.

Anyone else have the recurring urge to punt Emily in the ham wallet?

Not having ridden in 35 years, I'd probably think twice (and at my age, bones heal slow) about it. But, that sounds like a GREAT adventure. I've ridden 5 gaited show horses (MANY years ago!), and canter is one of my favorites!

If you follow me on instagram (@shaunsomers) you already are aware of this, but my wife and I just got back from a trip to Iceland that we took for our 15th anniversary. We did a horse riding tour that was extremely stretching for me as I basically only learned how to ride in September, and I had never been on an Icelandic horse before (they're different in that they have 2 extra gaits). Breathtaking scenery, met great people, and experienced only a few moments of sheer terror while on horseback.

I went to the Tennessee/Georgia game last weekend (too bad my team lost), but just a couple days before that, I went to another rallycross event with my brother in law and raced his newest subaru.

Hey @Iwar: @Wilhell just told me you'll be staying in my neighborhood! It's only a 7-minute walk from my place. Sorry, I don't know how far that is in metric. ;)

I want to get tattooed by people who do tattoos that I can feel in my gut, which is to say that when I see an artist's tattoos, or look through their portfolio or on their instagram or whatever (though more and more for me I want to see the tattoos, and not just pictures of them) I want to have a deeper reaction than just thinking that it's a good looking tattoo, and I want to have a good time getting those tattoos. I've been tattooed by some "big names" and I've travelled a fair bit to get tattooed, and to be honest, I feel a little self-conscious about it because--and maybe this is only in my head--I fear coming across as somebody who buys into that kind of almost celebrity culture that sometimes goes along with tattoo collecting that I think @Pugilist articulated very well. Because for me it's not about that and it was never about that. I just want to get rad tattoos.

@Pugilist yes, yes we can. This may be more fun than watching new people "set in" tattoos. @SeeSea I think either will work, I just prefer the taste of the dry food. The little carrot bits are my favorite

Oh I agree, @mtlsam, don't want to diss on clean tattoos! I more wanted to point out that some ways of looking at tattoos privilege that over everything else, which is a shame. Lots of very precise tattooers also make stuff that's powerful and cool and amazing to look at, of course!! Something I wanted to add to my previous rants was that I don't think "looser" tattooing is any less technical. Paying attention to how an image flows and knowing just how much to put into it and how much to leave out is as "technical" as perfect lines, if you ask me. Both take tremendous ability and vision, and they are of course not mutually exclusive.

I'm digging this thread! Some of the most interesting and passionate replies I have seen in a while. Also a touch of controversy, oh my. I think that this distinction being made between "clean" and "loose" tattoos is interesting as well. I for example have some of both styles side by side on my body. I find that both types are soulful. For me it's not a question of the precision of a line that dictates this factor. I believe in my case the way that the tattoos were done was quite deliberate. My chest of a panther vs. snake by Bailey Robinson is as clean as they come. Not a dot or squiggle out of place, but still powerful. My gorilla rose ribs by Chad Koeplinger is only as precise as a mega spread liner and serious whip shade action applied at warp speed allows. Not crisp, but bold for miles. I love and wouldn't change either. I think that many images can be successfully interpreted in many ways. The main importance being only for the wearer. Please keep your thoughts coming.

Is the dog food the new aftercare method? :)

Finally back at it. This one from Xam at Seven Doors, taken from Instagram:

Nekomata Monmon Cat - By Horitomo, State Of Grace. Done at the London tattoo convention 2014!