ian

Can I Have Everyones Attention Please?

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I want to start off by saying I absolutely love this forum. It's introduced me to many tattoo enthusiasts like myself, just all around good people. Not only that I got the honor of spending almost a week in San Francisco with @Iwar. I know I haven't been posting much, I'm going through some personal stuff, including a divorce, and I just haven't been at the top of my game lately.

Here's why I'm posting, I've recommended this forum to a few people and while they've checked it out and even posted threads, they couldn't get used to the 'clickiness'. Fortunately @MikeL stayed and as a result we got to see his amazing work done by Rodrigo Melo. The guys that have been here a while are well versed in tattoo etiquette and the guys that stick around pick it up pretty quick. That's great, I'm so glad we can serve a purpose and be a place where people can learn about the Do's and Don'ts, they can learn what a good tattoo is and who to get it from in their area.

I really want to see this be a place where anyone can get comfortable and learn a thing or 2 without feeling less than. I want to be confident that if I send people here that they're just bummed they didn't find it soonerT. I guess what I'm saying is that there should be no elite bullshit over here. Everyone should have the chance to learn and share the fun we have over here. I just hope this can be considered when some noob says something stupid. Don't ridicule them, do them a favor and PM them to fill them in. The more knowledgable people here the more fun we can have and the more tattoos we can see.

I guess what I'm saying is, if someone says something stupid, think about how to reply in a way that they want to continue to post here. I'll do my best to start posting again, I love you guys and I love this forum :D

Thanks all, Ian

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Hey @ian, sorry to hear you're going through some stuff. I absolutely agree with you. Thanks for posting your thoughts about this site and to remind everyone it's supposed to be fun for all and also a place to be helpful to one another.

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On the flip side, I'm impressed with how patient you all have been with newbies such as myself. I've been heavily involved in a few band forums in the past, and it's unusual to have both the obsessives and the people creating the art we obsess over together on one forum. It would be like Mark E Smith posting on the Fall message board or something. This is a terrible analogy. Anyway, it's not surprising if tensions arise sometimes.

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Good on you bro I hear what you are saying. I have been guilty myself of letting my emotions get the better of me from times and jumping on certain people. On another note my mother in law got her first tattoo today from the best shop in NZ and great tattooer Dan Anderson. I was able to steer her in the right direction and now she has outlines of a sweet tiger on rocks with cherry blossoms on her back, its amazing how a bit of educating can alter the end result. On a lighter note I hope your divorce isn't too messy, at least you know she can't take your tattoos with her....sorry bro I couldn't help myself, head up mate and full steam ahead.;)

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Hey, good to hear from you! Hope everything works itself out in your favor.

I still feel like I say stupid shit all of the time, ha

There is a lot of egotism in tattooing in general, it's one of the things about all of it that bums me out the most. I think everyone, myself included, falls into that pit from time to time. Sometimes we get so obsessed over the impression and impact of the art that we don't distance our selves from it and our everyone's-got-one opinions fly out, and words turn into vomit, etc.

Thanks for that reminder though :) One of my favorite things about this place is that everyone is really mellow, really nice, and usually has no problem checking themselves. It's rare, especially on the soapbox of anonymity known as the internet.

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@ian - I hope you're doing ok. I am sorry that you are having such a rought time right now.

@cltattooing - thank you for your reflections on ego. This is one of the major things that bums me out about tattoo subculture. I always say to @Graeme that it reminds me of the frustration I felt in punk subculture back in the day - that subcultures are supposed to counter cults of personality and celebrity and often end up creating their own. It's hard to find that line between pride and arrogance, between respect and worship, between belonging and exclusion. It's something I think about a lot on both the tattooer and the collector side of things - how can people really love this thing without becoming dicks about it?

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Sorry to hear about your personal stuff, man.

I just wanted to say that as someone relatively new to posting, I find this forum to be pretty welcoming and helpful compared to many. Having grown up as part of the punk/hardcore scene and being involved in any number of internet forums/sites in the late 90s/early 2000s, I've been around a lot less gracious and helpful people. I think a lot of people have been involved in petty, ego-driven, and overall crappy forums. And I guess I tend to lurk for a while and feel out a board before posting, but this board never made me feel out of place or anything, and I think that's awesome. I've already learned a ton, and people have been quick to give suggestions or comments when I've asked.

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Thanks to all of you, I'm extremely grateful for all of the support. This divorce is a bummer but it's about as good as it could get considering. There's been nothing nasty about it, I'm glad how it's playing out.

As for my post, I'm glad everyone is so accepting about it. I haven't seen anything negative enough to see someone leave but I did hear from a guy that said he didn't feel he was being accepted and I wanted to address it. Even if everyone is doing a good job welcoming noobs, it never hurts to get a reminder.

It reminds me of the saying, nothing ruins talent more than ego... or something like that.

Love you guys :D

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Sorry to hear that, @ian. I hear you and I don't disagree. But as with tattoos, it helps to have a thick skin. What it like about this forum is that it more often than not it tells it like it is -- what people need to hear even if it's not what they want to hear. I think maybe I asked some dumb questions when I first joined LST (and will no doubt continue to say dumb things) but I hung in there and I'm glad I did.

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Honestly I used to comment all the time but i put this site on my strike list for a while because of this exact reason. Thanks for sharing your experiences too. Not saying i've never said anything negative but some of us .. it seems like they go on this site constantly and look for questions that could be dumb questions.

While I do think some of these questions are dumb or whatever we all could choose to not answer them and do something more productive with our time... No?

I understand some of us have amazing tattoos and probably heard it all but WE ARENT TATTOO ARTIST!! How do we know what tattoo artist are annoyed by??? Actually all the artist that I've been in contact with have been super nice and professional. Also if someone walks in a tattoo shop with no tattoos and ask questions like .... I'm sure that these artist are more than happy to explain . If someone who has a lot of tattoos then that is another story.

I feel extremely lucky to have tattoos from these amazing artist! Jumping on anyone who has a question that you may think is basic or stupid then we have a choice. Either we can understand where they are coming from and answer or don't answer at all.

Oh in this day in age they should know already.. Really!???

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Ian, sorry to hear about your divorce- the best of luck...

As far as the forum goes I am not really convinced we are that unfriendly or closed off as group, to be honest. How many people are banned or told off by moderators here? Practically none. This is still a very, very civil forum by online standard for the most part.

There is the appearance of a 'clique' but actually there is a turnover of members here and I see new posters become regulars become 'old hands' in time...

It's always possible to be 'even nicer', but my personal view is that a pretty good balance is struck on the forum in terms of being friendly but also being honest. I like the fact that there's a lively atmosphere with some home truths occasionally being told, and I would hate too see that go.... I have learned a lot from some of the tattooers' rants posted on here!

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Might it be worth having a specific thread for questions that might be considered dumb, or for people to post in when they have something to say that isn't worthy of its own thread? People can avoid or refer people to it at will then.

I'd also like to say that I've been impressed with how literate even the arguments here are! There doesn't seem to be the usual pile-on I've seen on other forums. People still take time to post rationally and have a proper discussion over the issue.

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@ian everyone has already given you due props, but thanks for this thread! I think all of us (even those who do a good job of being nice) need reminders to be kind and decent. It's very easy to slip into close-mindedness and a "holier-than-thou" perspective.

To be honest, I think when people get defensive and *slightly* hostile is when "newbies" bite back or criticize our efforts to help.

I wish you smooth sailing for your divorce. That can never be an easy thing to go through...

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@ian everyone has already given you due props' date=' but thanks for this thread! I think all of us (even those who do a good job of being nice) need reminders to be kind and decent. It's very easy to slip into close-mindedness and a "holier-than-thou" perspective. To be honest, I think when people get defensive and *slightly* hostile is when "newbies" bite back or criticize our efforts to help. I wish you smooth sailing for your divorce. That can never be an easy thing to go through...[/quote']

Everything you said is spot on.

Personally I'm ok with newbs biting back a little, IMO that's the only way new ideas and new ground are ever broken in. I'm not cool with newbs trying to dictate etc etc but I'm also not a huge fan of 'this is it, your idea is impossible or stupid' etc.

just because that's the way it is, does not mean that's the way it has to be.. Something's yes, everything, no.

Things change, things evolve.

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Thanks again to all of you for the kind and thoughtful posts, words can't express my appreciation and gratitude :D

Regarding the topic, after browsing a recent thread started by a noob, I"m reminded that there's always exceptions and some people need to be told something with out that sugar coat ;)

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@ian Hopefully everything works out for you in the end im pulling for ya. As for LST; this forum is great. Being relatively new here myself I've found this place to be nothing but welcoming and I felt right at home. It's refreshing to be able to talk tattoos and share them with others that show the same level of enthusiam in them as I do. Simply put LST is the sh*t!

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I think it's a pretty unique position this forum sits in. The only thing I could liken it to in the rest of my life would be a restaurant forum where most of the people hadn't worked in a kitchen, but may have eaten thousands of dishes from one and know what it looks like in there etc. I feel like this will always lead to a some inane, uninformed comments and questions but also some amazing 'outsider' insight. I've known lots of professionals who were 'blinkered' in some ways by their training. Maybe a little bit more personal comment on other members has been creeping in here lately but overall it's a positive place. I've definitely learned a lot and laughed a lot from being here, good signs in my book.

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Opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one and sometime no one wants to hear it, and sometimes thing come out harsher than intended.

For the most part this forum seems to keep things civil and inclusive which is one of the reasons I signed up.

We all start from a place of ignorance, and work our way out, (as our interest grows).

It is good to state the obvious so it is brought forward to our consciousness, thank you for that, and hope everything works out well for you.

.

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I don't think this place is hostile, more like people don't sugar coat things. Which is a good thing. I rather like how opinionated everyone is here, its interesting to hear from people with a LOT more experience than me. I've gotten some awesome advice from some wonderful people here.

And I know everyone else has said it already but I hope everything works out for ya, hugs!

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@ian I hope everything is getting better on your end. Rough patches are the worst. Stay level-headed. Also, thanks for the kind words of reminder and encouragement in our LST dealings. I bet that Grime back piece of yours is healing nicely! When's the next session?

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